A little Superman clarification please?

[Ringslinger76]

OK, this if for continuity superbrains...
In the current IC, We have our current Superman and the "original" Earth 2 Superman. Is our current Superman really a continuation of the "Silver Age" Superman (Earth 1), or just a modern composite?
Did I follow correctly the Batman/Superman arc where the "Kingdom Come" Superman turned into the "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" Superman? Does that mean that the Kingdom Come Superman was the Silver Age Superman OR that the Silver Age Superman is really still the current Superman OR all of the above?

AND

Did that story null and void Kingdom Come entirely and end by folding that future into Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? I'm confused. But at least its interesting enough for me to ponder.

My hopes:
1. That they didn't just bring back the ORIGINAL Superman just to kill him or make him the villian.
2. It would be cool to have an Earth 2 again. The heroes there could be brighter and even look down their noses at the Earth 1 heroes. And Jay Garrick, Kal L, and Alan Scott could be special again.
3. That IC goes by weekly.. a month is too long to wait!

[PatrickG]

Originally Posted by Ringslinger76

OK, this if for continuity superbrains...
In the current IC, We have our current Superman and the "original" Earth 2 Superman. Is our current Superman really a continuation of the "Silver Age" Superman (Earth 1), or just a modern composite?

Fans have been arguing over this for years. I say that he is Silver Age Superman.

I've never heard anyone suggest that the Wolverine in House of M wasn't the real Wolverine. He's the same guy but his reality's been tinkered with.

Ditto for Superman. And that seems to be what Geoff Johns is implying. Maybe Gail or perrenial guests Mark Waid or Kurt Busiek could shed some light on this.

Originally Posted by Ringslinger76

Did I follow correctly the Batman/Superman arc where the "Kingdom Come" Superman turned into the "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" Superman? Does that mean that the Kingdom Come Superman was the Silver Age Superman OR that the Silver Age Superman is really still the current Superman OR all of the above?

Man. Where's Jeph Loeb when ya need him?

My understanding (and I *tend* to understand these things) is that the Superman you're talking about IS NOT the Kingdom Come Superman. He just shops at the same tailor.

He was the Superman of a possible future where Darkseid ruled what was left of a decimated earth after a Kryptonite meteor wipes out all humans (and he first appeared way back in the first arc of SUPERMAN/BATMAN, availible in the trade paperback PUBLIC ENEMIES).

But he is a possible future version of the current Superman.

When the timeline got fixed, he got a cosmic makeover when the timeline changed... And if his snazzy moustache, wife and house are any indication, I'd say that Jeph Loeb was suggesting that "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow...?" is still a possible future for our current Superman.

And in a roundabout way, yes, I think he was implying that the current Superman IS the Silver Age Superman by doing that.

Originally Posted by Ringslinger76

Did that story null and void Kingdom Come entirely and end by folding that future into Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? I'm confused. But at least its interesting enough for me to ponder.

Kingdom Come was an Elseworlds story. I don't think anybody ever seriously considered making it the real future. People have just used it as a buffet table for cool ideas.

And like I said, that Superman wasn't from Kingdom Come. He's from a world where every human gets wiped out by a Kryptonite meteor and Darkseid takes over the ruins.

He's not literally the "Whatever Happened to..." Superman either, I guess.

Jeph and Carlos were just using familiar fashion choices for Clark's future self as easter eggs.

Originally Posted by Ringslinger76

My hopes:
1. That they didn't just bring back the ORIGINAL Superman just to kill him or make him the villian.

I'm with you here. If he's the bad guy, sign me up for his team.

Originally Posted by Ringslinger76

2. It would be cool to have an Earth 2 again. The heroes there could be brighter and even look down their noses at the Earth 1 heroes. And Jay Garrick, Kal L, and Alan Scott could be special again.

I think they're pretty special now but I do think making the JSA the premiere heroes of their own world rather than just a bunch of old guys who "inspired" people is cool. I prefer 'em parallel to the JLA, not as the JLA's inspiration, I guess.

Originally Posted by Ringslinger76

3. That IC goes by weekly.. a month is too long to wait!

Yes. Yes, it is.

But consider this the appetizer for 52 where the non-stop action hits weekly.

[Just_A_Rat]

I'm not sure that isn't Kal-L in Kingdom Come. Given that Green Lantern is definitely Alan Scott, and it certainly looks like Jay is the Flash. The "S" logo is so stylized that you cannot tell by that. Granted, I do think they refer to Wonder Woman as "Diana" but I do not think it is clear that Superman is Silver Age or Modern Age as opposed to Golden Age. The world of Kingdom come seems to be an amalgam of the worlds which doesn't match the one we have now.

[PatrickG]

It was supposed to be a plausible future for the DCU as it existed in 1994 or so.

Alan Scott is GL because Alex Ross was opposed to painting Kyle Rayner and Hal was not an option at that point.

Superboy and Steel from current continuity were involved in Kingdom Come.

In Flashbacks, the Kingdom Come Superman had his 1990s mullet.

He may have resembled Kal-L in some ways but he was a distinctly different version of Superman.

[Ringslinger76]

Thanks for the heads up Patrick! I'm hoping that the "sinister" intonations from Kal L and spastic personality of Superboy Prime are just red herrings since it is very early in the series and they are apparently still "setting the table." I love Johns's work, but I wish he would "set the table" faster.. this is sooooo painful.

Thoughts..
If Earth 2 did return.. wouldn't Robin E2 and Huntress E2 still be dead along with Wonder Woman? They all got the big KO in COIE. Continuity migranes! I tell you what though.. the parrallel Earths always got my imagination running when I was a kid.. I missed that. Julie Schwarts was the man. I wonder what his take on the current DCU would be?

Booster has me thinking.. Hope for Beetle?
Flash has me worrying.. certainly not again.
Animal Man.. New series I hopes.
Power Girl.. yay.. she is back to her origin that didn't suck.

Last thought for now.. In the preview of JSA that Didio is writing you see Ma Hunkel reminescing over a manuscript written by Lois? That sure looks like a "we're remembering the dead" moment. Me no likey.

[PatrickG]

Well...

It may not be a perfect Earth-2 we'd go back to.

If the current DCU is Earth-1 with other stuff folded in, the new one could be Earth-2 with other stuff folded in.

I'd also pay attention to Jim Lee's cover for next issue.

If what's being offered is what I think is being offered...

Somebody may take somebody's place on new/old Earth-2 if it happens.

Anything could happen.

But lightning doesn't strike twice.

At the end of this, I expect things will be different and, at the same time, truer to their roots.

[Just_A_Rat]

Originally Posted by PatrickG

It was supposed to be a plausible future for the DCU as it existed in 1994 or so.

Alan Scott is GL because Alex Ross was opposed to painting Kyle Rayner and Hal was not an option at that point.

Superboy and Steel from current continuity were involved in Kingdom Come.

In Flashbacks, the Kingdom Come Superman had his 1990s mullet.

He may have resembled Kal-L in some ways but he was a distinctly different version of Superman.

I'd forgotten about the mulletted flashbacks. My point really was that Kingdom come seems to be an amalgamation of characters that they wanted to work with, (it was, after all, an Elseworlds) so I wouldn't read too much into what was going on there. It obviously doesn't follow directly from DC continuity.

[Ringslinger76]

I'm just hoping that the ending of IC impacts the DCU.. not just characters in it, but really changes some of the rules. That is what was cool about the original. For a few years after, everything seemed possible. I really wish that DC had the guts to start a new universe at "Zero Hour" not the mini series, but at a starting point without heroes. Let Superman come in first then Batman. It would be great as a lifetime fan to finally SEE the DCU from the ground up and not read about it in flashbacks or retcons.
(That doesn't mean I want to see Batman, Detective, or Action renumber before the hit 1000th issues.. I'm looking forward to that in my lifetime. Though I'm sure the issues will probably suck. :)

I do hope the multiverse returns at least a little.. after all, its no more confusing than any of the rest of DC's current continuity. Are we even worried about confusing new readers anymore? When was the last time comics had a "new" reader? Death of Superman?