Comic Book Resources

TCJohnson · 11-11-2005, 09:19 AM

I really don't know what to make of it.

Converge · 11-11-2005, 09:25 AM

it's a red X!

TCJohnson · 11-11-2005, 09:28 AM

Looks fine to me but you can also see it here:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryP...&GCat=0&UCat=0

the4thpip · 11-11-2005, 09:52 AM

Yikes.

That's just...
Yikes.

Spackling Compound · 11-11-2005, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCJohnson

Looks fine to me but you can also see it here:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryP...&GCat=0&UCat=0

The little "pickaninny" in the corner? Maybe during that time, it was still acceptable for such a depiction.
Doesn't make it right but there's a lot of art that now is pretty pathetic.

TCJohnson · 11-11-2005, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spackling Compound

The little "pickaninny" in the corner? Maybe during that time, it was still acceptable for such a depiction.
Doesn't make it right but there's a lot of art that now is pretty pathetic.

If it was the 40s or 50s or the early 60s, I could probably agree with you. But in 1978? It was considered very offensive even then.

Spackling Compound · 11-11-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCJohnson

If it was the 40s or 50s or the early 60s, I could probably agree with you. But in 1978? It was considered very offensive even then.

This is from a recent French production of Robert Crumb's artwork. Crumb has consistently, even to this day, depicted "jungle" or "pickaninny" versions of Black people.
I again, am not saying it is great or even good but that the cover you found isn't up for production nor was it published by Marvel. The "pickaninny" character may have been done in innocence as much as a picture of a cowpoke or pirate.

**Gail Simone** · 11-11-2005, 10:36 AM

That is very, very weird.

Gail

SoulOnIce · 11-11-2005, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spackling Compound

This is from a recent French production of Robert Crumb's artwork. Crumb has consistently, even to this day, depicted "jungle" or "pickaninny" versions of Black people.
I again, am not saying it is great or even good but that the cover you found isn't up for production nor was it published by Marvel. The "pickaninny" character may have been done in innocence as much as a picture of a cowpoke or pirate.

Drawing that kind of caricature is never done in innocence. It isn't at all like drawing a pirate or a cowpoke.

kcarroll · 11-11-2005, 11:05 AM

the UPC symbol of course will cover that, so I would not be surprised if this ended up being a running gag internally at marvel. Byrne might have always put something intentionally off color in that space. Terry Austin's signature already appears, so this might be a gag between the two of them.

while I don't think it's a great practice, we don't really know what was going on there, so 'weird' is a fair explanation. attributing motives to byrne is unfair.

Adam Crocker · 11-11-2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spackling Compound

This is from a recent French production of Robert Crumb's artwork. Crumb has consistently, even to this day, depicted "jungle" or "pickaninny" versions of Black people.

Leaving aside what Soul on Ice said, Crumb has reputation for drawing both misogynist and racist material that make even his most ardent fans uneasy. And that's leaving aside the fact that often his work was aimed to outrage and provoke, so it's unlikely to very innocent at all.

Spackling Compound · 11-11-2005, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoulOnIce

Drawing that kind of caricature is never done in innocence. It isn't at all like drawing a pirate or a cowpoke.

Yes it is so there.

Now, to be the adult...
In the past, cartoonist satirized many races by highlighting features and so forth. Crumb pays regular homage to the Disney cartoon style of the 30's and I am sure in his racial depictions is having fun with some of the old stereotypes shown in old MGM cartoon shorts or on advertising labels.

Byrne was probably just pulling out the old style and passing it around the office. I cannot attribute anything other than innocent fun in the picture. Shockingly sad now but for 1978, still not as politically charged.

In the hippie dippy days of tolerance and free love, here's another example of Crumb's work with "black mammy" depicted...

Adam Crocker · 11-11-2005, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcarroll

Terry Austin's signature already appears, so this might be a gag between the two of them.

while I don't think it's a great practice, we don't really know what was going on there, so 'weird' is a fair explanation. attributing motives to byrne is unfair.

Perhaps. Artists can have incredibly warped senses of humour. Besides, given all the ill considered, offensive statements he probably just doesn't have any tact left.

Spackling Compound · 11-11-2005, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gail Simone

That is very, very weird.

Gail

Byrne or Crumb?

Lester C. · 11-11-2005, 12:46 PM

This makes twice in as many days I’m defending a man I can’t stand. I’m going to have to shower after this post I swear. Lppl nothing I’ve ever read indicates that John is a racist. Ass**** yes racist no. This was twenty seven years ago when a young John was instructed to draw something and no control over the creative process.

Yes, I realize that John mouth has gotten him in trouble and a labeled a racist like his recent Jessica Alba blond hair Hispanic quote I won’t go into out of consideration for those reading this, but there no one instance where you can say that this man hates people of color as he is an equal opportunity offender.

11-11-2005, 09:19 AM	#1
TCJohnson Elder Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 13,822	Byrne X-Men Cover...this is just bizarre I really don't know what to make of it.

11-11-2005, 09:52 AM	#4
the4thpip They call me Mr. Pip! Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 15,912	Yikes. That's just... Yikes. __________________ My blog. We struggled against apartheid in South Africa, supported by people the world over, because black people were being blamed and made to suffer for something we could do nothing about; our very skins. It is the same with sexual orientation. It is a given. - Desmond Tutu Getting married? Check http://www.fandgweddings.com/

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11-11-2005, 09:25 AM	#2
Converge BANNED Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,431	it's a red X!

11-11-2005, 09:28 AM	#3
TCJohnson Elder Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 13,822	Looks fine to me but you can also see it here: http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryP...&GCat=0&UCat=0

11-11-2005, 10:36 AM	#8
Gail Simone Moderator Join Date: May 2004 Location: in the yard Posts: 16,834	That is very, very weird. Gail

11-11-2005, 11:05 AM	#10
kcarroll Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 210	the UPC symbol of course will cover that, so I would not be surprised if this ended up being a running gag internally at marvel. Byrne might have always put something intentionally off color in that space. Terry Austin's signature already appears, so this might be a gag between the two of them. while I don't think it's a great practice, we don't really know what was going on there, so 'weird' is a fair explanation. attributing motives to byrne is unfair.

11-11-2005, 12:46 PM	#15
Lester C. Elder Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 27,661	This makes twice in as many days I’m defending a man I can’t stand. I’m going to have to shower after this post I swear. Lppl nothing I’ve ever read indicates that John is a racist. Ass**** yes racist no. This was twenty seven years ago when a young John was instructed to draw something and no control over the creative process. Yes, I realize that John mouth has gotten him in trouble and a labeled a racist like his recent Jessica Alba blond hair Hispanic quote I won’t go into out of consideration for those reading this, but there no one instance where you can say that this man hates people of color as he is an equal opportunity offender.