Millar and Hitch's Ultimates (spoilers)

[taylor51]

Man, I've gotta take a second and give my props to them for their character designs for their stay during the Ultimates. Just got my omnibus and read through, and if reading that mammoth of collective comic awesomeness doesn't put you in the mood for praise, I don't know what will. Millar's plots are beautiful of course, but for now, I wanna concentrate on the art/character stuff.

My biggest shout out has to go to Ultimate Iron Man.For those of you following along, the cover to the Ultimates #2, him test driving the suit through New York in #2, the "hit him till he drops" spread at the end of issue #4, the "Iron Tech Launch Pad" page (and the shot of him flying to Micronesia a little bit later in the issue) from #9 and Hitch's actual character design shot in the back somewhere are my highlights. I just love how well done UIM was; it's the little nuances like him requiring a tech team in the field to operate that make him great (his one man show act in 616 has always been an obstacle for suspension of belief for me. Millar rocks at keeping things concise and applicable). Some interesting things of the redesign include:

-his primary method of attack being actual laser cannons mounted to his forearm (cool), rather than blasters in his palm (making Loeb/Finch's scene in Ultimatum where he kills Wolverine another annoying example of subsequent creative teams' disregard for the original designs laid out for these characters and just reverting to their established 616 designs. *sigh*)

-the distinctive blue thrusters, and just generally awesomely elaborate boots/hydraulic knees etc...

-how beefy the armor looks, especially in the chestplate, backplate and helmet regions. After seeing Ultimate Iron Man in action, it's kinda hard to imagine 616's comparatively puny looking armor taking any kind of a hit lol

-how he simplified the look for Ultimates 2. It makes sense, given how time consuming the uber elaborate look from Ultimates 1 must have been, but it's just kinda one of those funny things you notice lol

I love how they decked out Captain America at every point possible. His uniform goes through com headsets, satchels everywhere, military headgear, and camo pants throughout the run. His apparel always matched the occasion. Oh, and typically, I can't stand "proper" Cap's wingtips (I don't care how classic they are), so their removal was a plus, although I preferred the cowl look from U1 to the chinstrap look from U2. Oh, and "You think this letter on my head stands for France?!" Nuff said lol.

You've gotta love Ultimate Thor and Mjolnir; he is rarely anything short of awe-inspiring. Off the top of my head, the cover to #4, the scene where he wails on the Hulk in #5, him going ape-sh*t on the Chituari spaceships in #12-13, pretty much any time he teleports and you see that awesome silhouette, and the super emotional fight scenes with him versus the Ultimates and Loki in Ultimates 2 should round out the must see panels. You can't beat the cover with him holding Iron Man's helmet and Cap's shield in the rain either. Oh wow. Him with his hair burnt off when Loki is taunting him in his cell was pretty heart wrenching too. Man, he's just awesome. I absolutely LOVED his questionable identity subplot (is he a psycho hippie or an Asgardian God?), and think his beard and trenchcoats and attitude just all came together perfectly in making the story convincing. My only quip is now that however many years have passed since this series' release, 616 Thor has gotten a pretty sweet overhaul as well in JMS/Coipel's series. It makes choosing a favorite between them crazy hard lol.

Ultimate Hulk, besides being imo a much more logical application of the Hulk (big stupid weapon of last resort), looks great grey; I prefer it to green, honestly. Further expansions in Ultimate Human and Ultimate Hulk vs. Wolverine really make me love his character.

Black GENERAL Fury was a real shocker, and it kinda made me laugh when I first heard of it. My personal opinion is that the main reason they changed him so dramatically was because of the drastically different role he had to play: Ultimate Fury was just as much about presenting a "marketable" leader to the public (a heavy subplot of the Ultimates) as he was about leading the Ultimates, kicking butt and running S.H.I.E.L.D. I'm not sure I could see proper Fury fitting that spot (he's more of an old war horse type character in my head, above all the politics and more suited to being the uber tactician of any given op rather than actually leading the charge). Anyway, I loved his bad-@$$ attitude, younger appearance and Samuel L. Jackson likeness throughout, so I'll take him. Lol.

Finally, I really enjoyed the minimalistic leather/plate armor approach to the rest of the team's (Giant Man, Wasp, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye, and Black Widow) uniforms, especially on the black ops team side of things. It just suited Millar's storytelling and the climate he was going for so well.

Giant Man's obviously a tool for beating his wife, but his struggle for belonging through Ultimates 2 was great; the scene where he tries to give Fury Ultron for free really makes you feel for the guy. Even when he was overthrowing America he still had his heart in the right place trying to save civilians, and I personally think he never strayed too far in his involvement with the Liberators. Faced with the knowledge he happened upon in the situation he was in, I don't think he had another choice but to stick it out for the ride.

Jan was surprisingly awesome; I love the forward at the beginning where Millar points out that there's always the one that makes you wonder how the heck they made the team. In the annual one of the Reserves points that out and it made me laugh when Fury owned him back lol. She definitely pulls her own weight.

I hate how Loeb came in an trashed the awkward ambiguity of Pietro and Wanda's relationship. I loved that Millar left things deniable; to me, their relationship was perfectly crafted to always make you go "uh...," better never cross the line into outright gross. Sure, they celebrated kinda awkwardly when they beat the aliens, and they pass the time taking boat rides in Venice together, but to me (especially given backup from Ultimate War), it always seemed that they were just super close out of necessity, and didn't necessarily care about "human" taboos about contact/personal space with your sister lol. It's like the scene where Wanda flirts with Vision II; he's obviously fiercely protective of her, but she's attracted to other people and I don't think he was ever in her pants. Your mileage may vary (which was, again, the point). Loeb and his lack of understanding of nuance and the requisite reliance on shock factor that follows should have never been allowed to touch these characters :(.

Hawkeye... Oh man, I feel for the guy. One of the only things Loeb did right was how he made him a psycho with almost no regard for his own life after what happened to his family (and I'm a fan of Joe Mad's costume redesign when he's using two pistols, but I know I'm in the minority there). Pre-tragedy, I loved how necessary it was for him to concentrate on what he was doing to do his thing, and how the radio always screwed him up lol. Kinda one of those things you take for granted in a superhero comic, but it always made me laugh.

I enjoyed Black Widow and Hawkeye's relationship on the black ops team in Ultimates 1 a lot (they think they're the "big boy" heroes, rather than the "media darlings" lol), but obviously that got shot out the window in Ultimates 2. She really ended up being just pure evil towards then end, but her betrayal was heart wrenching (on both the Tony and Hawkeye angle) and the ending scene with Hawkeye in the hospital just goes to show how big of a cold b she is, so I'll give her that.

So they're we have it. Probably my favorite Avengers stories ever period. Discuss as you will I feel relieved having vented my praise for their awesomeness lol.

[JZ040488]

Originally Posted by taylor51

Man, I've gotta take a second and give my props to them for their character designs for their stay during the Ultimates. Just got my omnibus and read through, and if reading that mammoth of collective comic awesomeness doesn't put you in the mood for praise, I don't know what will. Millar's plots are beautiful of course, but for now, I wanna concentrate on the art/character stuff.

My biggest shout out has to go to Ultimate Iron Man.For those of you following along, the cover to the Ultimates #2, him test driving the suit through New York in #2, the "hit him till he drops" spread at the end of issue #4, the "Iron Tech Launch Pad" page (and the shot of him flying to Micronesia a little bit later in the issue) from #9 and Hitch's actual character design shot in the back somewhere are my highlights. I just love how well done UIM was; it's the little nuances like him requiring a tech team in the field to operate that make him great (his one man show act in 616 has always been an obstacle for suspension of belief for me. Millar rocks at keeping things concise and applicable). Some interesting things of the redesign include:

-his primary method of attack being actual laser cannons mounted to his forearm (cool), rather than blasters in his palm (making Loeb/Finch's scene in Ultimatum where he kills Wolverine another annoying example of subsequent creative teams' disregard for the original designs laid out for these characters and just reverting to their established 616 designs. *sigh*)

-the distinctive blue thrusters, and just generally awesomely elaborate boots/hydraulic knees etc...

-how beefy the armor looks, especially in the chestplate, backplate and helmet regions. After seeing Ultimate Iron Man in action, it's kinda hard to imagine 616's comparatively puny looking armor taking any kind of a hit lol

-how he simplified the look for Ultimates 2. It makes sense, given how time consuming the uber elaborate look from Ultimates 1 must have been, but it's just kinda one of those funny things you notice lol

I love how they decked out Captain America at every point possible. His uniform goes through com headsets, satchels everywhere, military headgear, and camo pants throughout the run. His apparel always matched the occasion. Oh, and typically, I can't stand "proper" Cap's wingtips (I don't care how classic they are), so their removal was a plus, although I preferred the cowl look from U1 to the chinstrap look from U2. Oh, and "You think this letter on my head stands for France?!" Nuff said lol.

You've gotta love Ultimate Thor and Mjolnir; he is rarely anything short of awe-inspiring. Off the top of my head, the cover to #4, the scene where he wails on the Hulk in #5, him going ape-sh*t on the Chituari spaceships in #12-13, pretty much any time he teleports and you see that awesome silhouette, and the super emotional fight scenes with him versus the Ultimates and Loki in Ultimates 2 should round out the must see panels. You can't beat the cover with him holding Iron Man's helmet and Cap's shield in the rain either. Oh wow. Him with his hair burnt off when Loki is taunting him in his cell was pretty heart wrenching too. Man, he's just awesome. I absolutely LOVED his questionable identity subplot (is he a psycho hippie or an Asgardian God?), and think his beard and trenchcoats and attitude just all came together perfectly in making the story convincing. My only quip is now that however many years have passed since this series' release, 616 Thor has gotten a pretty sweet overhaul as well in JMS/Coipel's series. It makes choosing a favorite between them crazy hard lol.

Ultimate Hulk, besides being imo a much more logical application of the Hulk (big stupid weapon of last resort), looks great grey; I prefer it to green, honestly. Further expansions in Ultimate Human and Ultimate Hulk vs. Wolverine really make me love his character.

Black GENERAL Fury was a real shocker, and it kinda made me laugh when I first heard of it. My personal opinion is that the main reason they changed him so dramatically was because of the drastically different role he had to play: Ultimate Fury was just as much about presenting a "marketable" leader to the public (a heavy subplot of the Ultimates) as he was about leading the Ultimates, kicking butt and running S.H.I.E.L.D. I'm not sure I could see proper Fury fitting that spot (he's more of an old war horse type character in my head, above all the politics and more suited to being the uber tactician of any given op rather than actually leading the charge). Anyway, I loved his bad-@$$ attitude, younger appearance and Samuel L. Jackson likeness throughout, so I'll take him. Lol.

Finally, I really enjoyed the minimalistic leather/plate armor approach to the rest of the team's (Giant Man, Wasp, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye, and Black Widow) uniforms, especially on the black ops team side of things. It just suited Millar's storytelling and the climate he was going for so well.

Giant Man's obviously a tool for beating his wife, but his struggle for belonging through Ultimates 2 was great; the scene where he tries to give Fury Ultron for free really makes you feel for the guy. Even when he was overthrowing America he still had his heart in the right place trying to save civilians, and I personally think he never strayed too far in his involvement with the Liberators. Faced with the knowledge he happened upon in the situation he was in, I don't think he had another choice but to stick it out for the ride.

Jan was surprisingly awesome; I love the forward at the beginning where Millar points out that there's always the one that makes you wonder how the heck they made the team. In the annual one of the Reserves points that out and it made me laugh when Fury owned him back lol. She definitely pulls her own weight.

I hate how Loeb came in an trashed the awkward ambiguity of Pietro and Wanda's relationship. I loved that Millar left things deniable; to me, their relationship was perfectly crafted to always make you go "uh...," better never cross the line into outright gross. Sure, they celebrated kinda awkwardly when they beat the aliens, and they pass the time taking boat rides in Venice together, but to me (especially given backup from Ultimate War), it always seemed that they were just super close out of necessity, and didn't necessarily care about "human" taboos about contact/personal space with your sister lol. It's like the scene where Wanda flirts with Vision II; he's obviously fiercely protective of her, but she's attracted to other people and I don't think he was ever in her pants. Your mileage may vary (which was, again, the point). Loeb and his lack of understanding of nuance and the requisite reliance on shock factor that follows should have never been allowed to touch these characters :(.

Hawkeye... Oh man, I feel for the guy. One of the only things Loeb did right was how he made him a psycho with almost no regard for his own life after what happened to his family (and I'm a fan of Joe Mad's costume redesign when he's using two pistols, but I know I'm in the minority there). Pre-tragedy, I loved how necessary it was for him to concentrate on what he was doing to do his thing, and how the radio always screwed him up lol. Kinda one of those things you take for granted in a superhero comic, but it always made me laugh.

I enjoyed Black Widow and Hawkeye's relationship on the black ops team in Ultimates 1 a lot (they think they're the "big boy" heroes, rather than the "media darlings" lol), but obviously that got shot out the window in Ultimates 2. She really ended up being just pure evil towards then end, but her betrayal was heart wrenching (on both the Tony and Hawkeye angle) and the ending scene with Hawkeye in the hospital just goes to show how big of a cold b she is, so I'll give her that.

So they're we have it. Probably my favorite Avengers stories ever period. Discuss as you will I feel relieved having vented my praise for their awesomeness lol.

i concur on teh insane amount of awesomeness this story posesses

[dreyga2000]

It brings tears to my eyes thining about how far the Ultimates have fallen since then....

[carabas]

Originally Posted by taylor51

Hawkeye... Oh man, I feel for the guy. One of the only things Loeb did right was how he made him a psycho with almost no regard for his own life after what happened to his family.

Great post. Makes me just want to pull out teh books and read them all over again.

Except the bit about Hawkeye. See, if what you wrote was what what happened, I would be okey with it. What Loeb gave us was not Clint with a disregard for his own life, a deathwish, if you will. He gave us a cookoo for cocopuffs psychopath with a total disregard for life in all its forms (who in the end was partly responsible for millions of deaths).

[taylor51]

Originally Posted by carabas

Great post. Makes me just want to pull out teh books and read them all over again.

Except the bit about Hawkeye. See, if what you wrote was what what happened, I would be okey with it. What Loeb gave us was not Clint with a disregard for his own life, a deathwish, if you will. He gave us a cookoo for cocopuffs psychopath with a total disregard for life in all its forms (who in the end was partly responsible for millions of deaths).

I assume you're talking about him arrow-gunning (yeah, wtf?! is right) Magneto before Quicksilver got in the way? I'll get to that in a minute.

Anyway, I guess what I meant to say is that one of the only things Loeb did right was scratch the surface of a cool idea, then leave it completely ignored amidst his crap storm for future, more talented writers to pick up :). Millar looks to be running with it with that parachute scene from UCA #1, ("You're crazy, you know? I think you mean awesome" Lol) which I thought was neat, and the dialogue from his end is definitely more black hearted (giving Tony a hard time about Wolverine, "first ten or fifteen kills are always the hardest," his general tool demeanor with Fury and Danvers, etc) than it should be. I dunno. I think his current direction, like double toting uzis and being all bad-@$$ is cool. I do hope he eventually remembers his bow and arrows though; I'd be fine with him alternating. Just no more guns with bow parts on the barrels. *shudders*

Anyway, can we just talk about how incredibly stupid Loeb writes Magneto? He should be freakin' untouchable by projectiles, and yet every other panel someone chucks a hammer or shield or arrow at him and he just lets it happen. He could have shot that spike right back at Hawkeye. He could have crumpled all the Ultrons running around in seconds. He could have stopped Wolverine from stabbing him. But no! He only gets these bright ideas after that, where he opens Cyclops visor (close your eyes, duh) and somehow activates Iron Man's weaponry with his magnet powers (not likely). Cyclops' beams don't even generate heat! So it would have just been like getting hit with something hard; it wouldn't have killed all of his cells or some crap like that. But I digress.

I'm very quickly realizing this has become a dumping ground for my latent concern for the UU. Man... I really hope it gets back to its roots and goes places. There are so many awesome characters running around and I don't want to see them die off. Especially not Spider-Man (fire LaFuente though, I don't want to read manga) or Iron Man (who has a fantastic armor design and manages to be obviously intelligent, funny, awesome and drunk without being a tool like in 616). Steven Kurth draws an awesome Ultimate Iron Man in Armor Wars too, so I'm excited to see where that goes, and I'm really hoping that Loeb will shape up because that panorama art by Frank Cho floating around is awesome.

Blaaaargh.

[PympMyQuinjet]

Ultimates 1 and 2 are probably my favorite comics ever. So, I agree.

[JessieMidnight]

I agree, Ultimates 1, and 2 are great! Some of my favorite comics! How is the omnibus hardcover? I definitely want to look into getting it, I really love Millar, and Hitch's Ultimates!

[FlyingFox]

Originally Posted by PympMyQuinjet

Ultimates 1 and 2 are probably my favorite comics ever. So, I agree.

Yeah, me too. I'll have to pick up the omnibus soon.

[taylor51]

Originally Posted by JessieMidnight

I agree, Ultimates 1, and 2 are great! Some of my favorite comics! How is the omnibus hardcover? I definitely want to look into getting it, I really love Millar, and Hitch's Ultimates!

The omnibus' are really top notch. I'm a huge fan of oversized hardcovers so I've got six or seven floating around here lol. The book is excellently crafted (paper quality, binding, etc) and the commentaries by the authors are always awesome. I would recommend getting it!

[carabas]

Originally Posted by taylor51

Millar looks to be running with it with that parachute scene from UCA #1, ("You're crazy, you know? I think you mean awesome" Lol) which I thought was neat, and the dialogue from his end is definitely more black hearted...

Sorry, I just am not seeing it. Superheroes are always jumping out of planes, helicopters or SHIELD helicarriers without parachuets in Millar's comics.

[striderhirryu2]

Cap jumping out of a window pressing the Silver Surfer down with his shield in Ultimate Extinction. Now that was awesome

[Elayis]

I'm thinking about getting the omnibus, but I already have both of the oversized hardcovers. So unless there are any exclusives with the omnibus, I don't think I really want to pay $100 for the run, when I got both of the HC's for $30 each.

Could you list off the extras included in the omnibus?

[spacepatate15]

The first two volumes of ultimates were great except for few minors details.But it was still some of the best avengers books ever.

Ultimates 3 was mediocre.The problem is that all the good stuff about millar and hitch run aren`t there and the story is a messy brotherhood-ultron-spider-man and venom mash-up that make sense at the end thanks to the explanation,but still it really inferior to previous volumes and show once again how loeb work failed to impress currently.

Ultimate comics avengers is the shit^i still have to wait to read it^and new ultimates sound promising,but i would approach this last one with cautions.

[taylor51]

Originally Posted by Elayis

I'm thinking about getting the omnibus, but I already have both of the oversized hardcovers. So unless there are any exclusives with the omnibus, I don't think I really want to pay $100 for the run, when I got both of the HC's for $30 each.

Could you list off the extras included in the omnibus?

Never pay $100 bucks for an omnibus. Amazon sells them for $63 for the big ones like ASM or X-Men and $47 for the smaller ones like Astonishing X-Men or Brubaker's Daredevil and they ship free I believe.

[taylor51]

Originally Posted by carabas

Sorry, I just am not seeing it. Superheroes are always jumping out of planes, helicopters or SHIELD helicarriers without parachuets in Millar's comics.

To each their own I guess. I personally think that in the past, Millar wrote him as someone who was very aware of his vulnerability as a "normal" guy. The best examples I can think of:

-His constant moaning about getting off-line, lest he get owned for them breaking his concentration

-The first issue he was introduced, where Black Widow goes so far as calling him an old woman for worrying about the situation

-When the commandos laugh at him screaming bloody murder that the Hulk's gonna eat him after he shot him with the antidote

I can't really see THAT Hawkeye opting out of a parachute for an op so high up even Cap took one, let alone jumping out of a helicopter (which was obviously done for dramatic effect, like you sort of implied, but still). Millar gave him way too much panel time as someone with a healthy fear of danger lol.