Is Ultimate Universe is as credible as 616?

[VRaptorX]

I say yes. It has almost a decade of continuity and has had mini series and side stories that do not fit in the main canon. You can't be an alternate universe if you have your own what if stories. You are now a full fledged universe just as credible as 616....but I still see so many people say, "oh it doesn't matter what garbage they do to Ultimate line. It's not 616."

[Cloudman]

Well, it was. Before Loeb, it was an extremely credible universe. I'm just hoping that Bendis, Millar and Ellis choose to not make references to Ultimatum. No doubt Loeb will, but 2 good ongoings and 1 good mini isn't bad for an alternate universe.

[bjmorga]

I don't think there's an issue of credibility. Any well written story has credibility; it doesn't matter what moniker it falls under. I think the issue now is whether or not the line has staying power after the events of Ultimatum. I don't think many fans were clamoring for the story that happened in that event. I don't believe anyone was requesting any of teh twists and turns that we have read there thus far.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

I don't think its as credible, well because of all the bad story lines Loeb has created and because the characterization isn't as strong as with the 616 universe.

[Mr Omnis]

616 is only as credible as it is because it's significantly older than Ultimate. To disregard Ultimate Marvel as "not credible" is more a form of elitism than anything else. It's credible within itself, even though its fanbase isn't, comparably, as large.

Loeb, however, has damaged it a bit with what he's done.

[NickGuy]

Originally Posted by The Master Meglomaniac

I don't think its as credible, well because of all the bad story lines Loeb has created and because the characterization isn't as strong as with the 616 universe.

616 has just as many, many more "bad" stories. if anything, Loebs inclusion in the ultimate universe makes it MORE credible and adds another side to it, otherwise it feels like bendismillarverse.

[striderhirryu2]

Originally Posted by NickGuy

616 has just as many, many more "bad" stories. if anything, Loebs inclusion in the ultimate universe makes it MORE credible and adds another side to it, otherwise it feels like bendismillarverse.

Why did we need cartoony Superheroics when people loved the realism of the BendisMillar-verse? As far as I can see, Loeb hasn't actually contributed anything to the Ultimate U. When I say contributed it's along the lines of creation. He starts with Ultimates 3. Created nothing, just decided to retcon Millar's stories and kill his characters. Ultimatum he's gone on a killing spree taking out everyone's creations from Millar and BKV to Bendis' and Kirman. He took Zarda from the Supreme Power Universe in Ultimate Power and decides to make Nick Fury look like a douchebag at every chance possible. There's alot of take involved in Loeb's work but I honestly can't see any give aside from Ultimate Kaazar and Shanna, and they were as shallow as the end of the swimming pool with the sponge dinosaur. Oh and Black Panther, but his relevence is non-existent.

[carabas]

Originally Posted by NickGuy

if anything, Loebs inclusion in the ultimate universe makes it MORE credible...

How does removing the political undertones, more natural characterisation and realistically styled costumes (so basically anything that was remotely credible) lend more credibility to the Ultimate Universe?

[The Master Meglomaniac]

Originally Posted by NickGuy

616 has just as many, many more "bad" stories. if anything, Loebs inclusion in the ultimate universe makes it MORE credible and adds another side to it, otherwise it feels like bendismillarverse.

It only has more bad stories because its been around longer and almost none of those stories are half as as loeb's.

The problem is Loeb's stories are trying to tear apart of the entire UU, you would never get a crossover where so important characters are killed off in such a disgusting manner in the 616 universe.

I also maintain the characterization is better in the 616 universe.

[NickGuy]

well the original question is if the ultimate universe is credible...i think that having more creators contribute to it gives it more credibility. whether good or bad

[carabas]

How are you defining credibility here?

[Mr Omnis]

Originally Posted by carabas

How does removing the political undertones, more natural characterisation and realistically styled costumes (so basically anything that was remotely credible) lend more credibility to the Ultimate Universe?

Because it's more like a superhero comic from the worst parts of the 90s now. All that really matters, it would seem, is how many writers a company/brand has, as opposed to how high the quality of work is.

[NickGuy]

Originally Posted by carabas

How are you defining credibility here?

credibility as a comic book "universe"...im defining it as a credible universe that, much like marvel started with stan an djack, has been added to and more aspects brought in by new creators. i think if it was still just bendis and millar this whole time, it wouldnt be as credible to me, because it would just feel like its own little side project by two people.

[Cloudman]

Originally Posted by NickGuy

credibility as a comic book "universe"...im defining it as a credible universe that, much like marvel started with stan an djack, has been added to and more aspects brought in by new creators. i think if it was still just bendis and millar this whole time, it wouldnt be as credible to me, because it would just feel like its own little side project by two people.

One, Bendis and Millar were not even close to being the only contributors to the Ultimate Universe before Loeb, and two, if it's poor quality writing, it only makes the universe less credible.

[NickGuy]

i think we are defining credibility different. i think you are defining it from a character standpoint, while im defining it by an overall creator standpoint. i knowbendis and millar werent the only contributors, but loeb was the only contributor who has done something big and eventful in the ultimate universe, IMO.