MERGE: Thoughts on Captain Marvel

[Make Mine Mar-Vell]

To all readers of Marvel comics, Captain Marvel, and just comic fans in general, basically everyone, fan or not,

I almost want to say that I am speechless over what fumble-bumbling (or however you choose to word it) has taken place with this character, but I find myself being anything but...speechless.

I refuse to accept this.

I thank you all for taking the time to read and reply to this post, so here we go:



The basic components of the character are timeless and what has happened is an atrocity, but someday it will happen, it's simply common sense, who comes out of a 28 years hiatus and does that? Hmmm...you think there's some potential there?

It doesn't make sense and I've analyzed it in every possible way.

To bring back a legend, or to appear to bring back a legend that proved it can sell comic books, to hand over the mantle to a nobody basically, even in storywriting terms, makes no sense, especially when that legend was subjected to some inner political nonsense, as it would appear to a reader, that just up and nixed it, makes no sense.

2 panels and that's it? Wha?

Tell me, if Noh-Varr was the plan wouldn't it make more sense if it was actually Mar-Vell?

I'm speechless, it's unprofessionalism at it's worst, hey I call 'em as I see 'em, especially when I'm one of the loyal customers who buys your comics, goes to see your films and writes my letters.

Captain Marvel proved the critics wrong in that mini series, and in my experiences with the people (loyal Marvel comics readers) I've talked to that didn't want him back in the first place were beginning to be won over, the success of the mini series proves that.

The only concept or hope I can speculate is that The REAL Mar-Vell is still trapped in the negative zone at the end of CM #4, and the one after that is not him. I was happy with that story line personally, because it still had all the basic story components, but some disagre which is fine, everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion, but this is an outrage in my opinion.

Noh-Varr?

Tell me this is some kind of sick joke.

Do you really think Noh-Varr is going to sell comic books or ever be in Mar-Vell's league? They would have done better with Genis even, at least that would have made sense, I'm not saying I'd have been happy with that, if you tell me you're bringing back THE Captain Marvel, and you've made the decision with all the controversy surrouding the concept, then do it. You see through it through. Why chicken out?

Actually the bottom line is there is only one Captain Marvel, and his name is Mar-Vell. So the crux of your whole story, even if it is to have him endorse in the real 616 MU a new CM, which is stupid in my opinion because it snubs whatever character you're choosing out of their chance to develope on their own, the crux of the whole storyline is that it IS Mar-Vell.

You've got to be asking yourself, regardless of where you stand, what was the point of all this?

These are basic storywriting points, I just don't get it, if some thing isn't broken why fix it?

Take it as you want, these are my opinions and I am sticking to them, someday, a lightbulb will go on over somebody's head in power at Marvel, and they will see that this character is worth more alive than dead, I understand the importance to comics of his death, but that purpose was fufilled years ago, and be it storywise, financially, or even inspiriationally, the character's return should, could, and even has proven that his return is equally important.

The character is more relevant now than at any point it's history, why you would want to kill your own story is beyond me. What was the point?

This is perhaps arguably the "greatest debacle in the history of Marvel Comics."

So don't give up, it may be a fictional character, but all I can say is to apply what Mar-Vell stands for to your own life, no, I don't mean putting on the red and blue suit and running around the city or wherever you live (which that suit MEANS something, BTW) I mean, well, I think you know what I mean.

Let's cross our fingers and hope he's stuck in the negative zone after achieving peace on Earth for 24 hours, that's not a feat just anybody can pull off, I don't care who they are.

Marvel knows, or has to know by now, that there is a fanbase that will support Mar-Vell's return.

This is how I feel about it. It's poor storywriting.

I want THE Captain Marvel back. I was willing to go with the previous idea because I saw it as Mar-Vell, or as close as we were going to get. I know some people didn't like that, but I just "well, this is as close as they can get without writing over Marvel Graphic Novel #1", I figured it was some kind of alien hybrid implanted with Mar-Vell thoughts, memories, powers, look, perhaps even soul which would explain him constantly portrayed in what catholicism would refer to as purgatory, or Marvel's version, The Land of the Dead, Jedi spirit for, whatever, however you want to word it, they've been teasing this return for years now and there any of a number of ways to write him back. Like a new body, I was willing to go with that, I guess even in his own weird Skrull/Kree hybrid way with Mar-Vell implanted ideals and thoughts or whatever, he kind of embodied the basic components of the Mar-Vell story, all of those early Marvel characters had great stories, a strong basic relatable foundation that's why they've lasted and maybe I just wanted Marv back that bad, I dunno, we've debated this over and over, and I have my opinion you have yours, I thought it could have been an interesting take on the story, he's still an alien, he still wears the red and blue he still decides to champion earth and looks, thinks and believes he is Mar-Vell, but is confused doesn't know if he's an experimental weapon, yadda yadda...it doesn't even matter now because they just killed it, so what was the point?

Noh-Varr?

You've got to be kidding me.

p.s. Am I the only one that noticed the title and intellectual property was selling comic books and winning over a new audience until they started screwing with it? It's as if Bendis just shut down what Reed had worked on. My guess is it's some kind of politics, but I wouldn't know, how do you explain this? Is it just over a name? How else do you explain this? If so, they could have done that anyway, right? The one that has the impact on Comics is the Mar-Vell version. It's as if somebody somewhere just doesn't want this character to succeed, when it's proven it can.

As a fan, it just stinks, and yeah you can say what you want about that, but even from a writing point of view it makes no sense. Period.

Going with that ish #4 theory I mentioned above, there are ways you could write him back in, alive and well, even cured.

Look if my words have offended any creative minds out there, well so be it, it's only because I support Marvel Comics, so I DO have a right to say what I think, and I think this is a crime to Comic Books, even non fans find this a bit ridculous.

I will be supporting the return of Captain Marvel, THE real MAR-VELL, but I will NOT be supporting another stand in. That's my feeling it does not have to be yours, it just seems as if this company doesn't care about this fanbase and is dragging it through the mud, for what reason I have no idea, perhaps someone is afraid today's audience might like Mar-Vell more than Sentry as their big guy? I dunno, obviously I'm upset personally about this, but even beyond that, the thing that bothers me most is that it makes no logical sense business wise, or even storywise either.

I will be following through the upcoming Avengers title and hoping for the best but count me out on Noh-Varr.

So don't lose heart, fans of Mar-Vell like myself out there, you did prove to this company through your letters and supporting the comic, that this story and this character still has a fanbase that merits attention, even moreso now than ever in it's history, nobody can take that away from you, no matter what anyone says here or anywhere else, for all those who are fighting cancer in real life, or whatever has you downtrodden, God bless and if anyone can beat the odds you can...and hopefully someone up top will take note of this and do the right thing and give the fans what they really want.

Captain Marvel back for good.

God bless, take care and never...ever give up

*

Make Mine Mar-Vell

[drwho]

Wow.

Personally I would have preferred the skrull that was forced to be Marvel. I like how his situation paralleled with the old Marvell. How both characters turned against their own kind to save the Earth. That I felt would have been more compelling than Marvel Boy, or Nohvar taking up the mantle.

[The Black Guardian]

There should be no Marvel but Mar-Vell.
(but in a pinch, I'd prefer Monica Rambeau over any Skrulls or Kree)

And that's all I have to say about that.

[Lupek]

I liked the recent mini but I am not following Secret Invasion or any Avengers books, so I am lost What happened to Mar-Vell?

[The Black Guardian]

spoilers:

He's dead, Jim. We don't even know how, really.

end of spoilers

[Cthulhudrew]

Can't wait for the return of Genis-Vell, myself.

[Flinkman]

legend?

no. sorry, Captain Marvel is NOT one of Marvel's legendary character's despite what his name would have us think.

his book lasted 62 issues....hardly some great success that earns him status as one of the companies legends. let's face it, most of his notoriety stems from the story of his death in Marvel's first graphic novel. that was published in '82, it took some 25 years or so years for anyone to even attempt to resurrect the original Mar-Vell. and what a shame, it didn't even turn out to be him.

anyways, don't misinterpret what i'm saying...i absolutely ADORE Mar-Vell. he is probably my favorite solo male Marvel hero, but i honestly believe most would disagree with your classification of him as a "Marvel legend" and i don't see those of us who, ya know, actually ENJOY CHANGE in our comic books (Mar-Vell fan or not) having a problem embracing Noh-Varr as the new Captain Marvel. it's not like he's the first (i can't even keep track...he'll be like what, the fifth or sixth person to have used that name since Mar-Vell died?) to have taken up the title since.

sorry, mate. i appreciate your passion for the character because i love him as well, but i think what's ended up happening is better than another ridiculous comic book revival.

[Kid Impulse]

I'm going to miss Skrull-Vell. I'd grown to like him. I can't wait to see Noh-Varr step up to the plate, his was the best Illuminati issue IMO and he has a ton of untapped potential, as long as he's not watered down.

I like that Bendis takes these characters like The Sentry, The Hood and Ares and brings them to the mainstream, but he never gets them quite right. Hopefully he'll do Noh-Varr justice.

Captain Marvel is one of the few 'legacies' that Marvel has, it shouldn't come as a surprise when we get a new one, we've had at least five already.

[Make Mine Mar-Vell]

If not a legend, then why do they outright lie about bringing him back? What was the big deal about and who bought those comics? 62 issues? In the 1970's? I thank you for your response, but I stand strong on my ideals and would like to, as much as possible, respectfully disagree. That was a trailblazing time when the cosmic portion of Marvel was being established and the CM title was a big part of that. What have the replacements done? Really it's not even a comparison from my point of view, anyway, that's your opinion, which is okay with me, I'm not here to debate that, the topic is the general bad storytelling of the entire return of Mar-Vell, or supposed Mar-Vell, concept, thank you though.

Respectfully,

(just woke up)Why do they outright lie about bringing him back? 62 issues? In the 1970's? I thank you for your response, but I to respectfully disagree. That was a trailblazing time when the cosmic portion of Marvel was being established and the CM title, along with SS and FF was a big part of that, but that's not my area of concern on this thread, it's CM in the current era with Reed and Weeks work. What have the replacements done? Really it's not even a comparison from my point of view, anyway, that's your opinion, which is okay with me, I'm not here to debate that, the topic is the general bad storytelling of the entire return of Mar-Vell, or supposed Mar-Vell, concept, thank you though for responding.

The comic did go to 2nd printings and had good sales after a 28 year hiatus, we could go back and forth on this, I don't wish to do so, it's just that is was working and makes no sense to bring him back and do this only to bring yet another replacement in. That's nothing against the replacements or anything, it's unfair to them as well to make their own name. I would think that theory has been refuted, but either way, it's irrelevant in my opinion, I summed all that up in the original post.

Respectfully,



Thank you so much

Please discuss the questions in the 1st post if you want, the whole thing, by my estimation (doesn't have to be yours) seems ridiculous to me.

I don't want to get into a debate over was Mar-Vell this or was he that, type of thing, I'm just saying that's not the issue, if they were going to do it, then why chicken out, there is, believe it or not, a small but loyal base of Mar-Vell fans. The whole thing just doesn't make sense from not only a storytelling p.o.v., but a selling comics one, do you see what I mean?

Like, for example, if the plan was always to have the original Mar-Vell come back on borrowed time to pass down the mantle, why was he a.) killed off so quickly and b.) not even Mar-Vell? What sense does that make?

I gotta go, but I'll be back later thanks for your time

(just woke up, I apologize if I seem curt, if I do, it's certainly unintentional, I'm late for something, but I would love to discuss this later today with you, if you guys are free, there's more I want to add and I am interested in all of your responses)

[syzygy89]

I would have picked up an ongoing about Skrull-Vell in a heartbeat. Killing him off was just a bad idea and I really don't understand why a character with so much potential is killed off. The only reason I can see is to give Marvel Boy a reason to be a hero, but I don't understand why Marvel Boy > Skrull-Vell. I haven't read the Marvel Boy mini series, so maybe I'm missing something.

[Make Mine Mar-Vell]

Originally Posted by syzygy89

I would have picked up an ongoing about Skrull-Vell in a heartbeat. Killing him off was just a bad idea and I really don't understand why a character with so much potential is killed off. The only reason I can see is to give Marvel Boy a reason to be a hero, but I don't understand why Marvel Boy > Skrull-Vell. I haven't read the Marvel Boy mini series, so maybe I'm missing something.

I wouldn't call it Skrull-Vell, because of the negative connotation, it's more like Hybrid Kree/Skrull with Mar-Vell's memories, ideals, and the ever imposing question of soul, or better yet "the seemingly close as they're going to allow us" version, lol... but either way, that's all semantics, but I agree completely with you, there was a lot of compelling storytelling potential in that idea, a man torn between three worlds now, but some of the hardcore Mar-Vell fans, God bless them, found that as a rip off because he was advertised as the one, original Marvel Comics Captain Marvel, and I can understand why they would disenchanted by that.

I admire that you saw that potential, but all for naught, their handling of the character in general just baffles me.

Bottom line: What was the point?

If it wasn't broke then why fix it? Obviously, to me anyway, people want Captain Marvel back, the Mar-Vell, why not just do it? I mean if you make that decision, all this half way tease stuff is for the birds, and besides it was selling and it makes no sense to the story the way Bendis handled it, almost seemed on purpose, but I wouldn't know, just a bit strange.

Kindest regards

Dammit, late! Talk to guys later, I'm very interested in your take on this.

[Seres]

The way it stands at the moment, Secret Invasion has become one big fight, without any 'instant' threat to the heroes. We've got two wild cards left in the story, and they are spoilers:

The Wasp and Marvel Boy.

end of spoilers

So say he makes a mistake, attacks the wrong person or comes in at the wrong moment - he could well be the cause of all of this Dark Reign stuff. I don't think you should complain about Noh-Varr taking over as Captain Marvel until we see it happen. If anything, it seems to me that they're setting him up to take a fall.

[agrich]

The real Mar-Vell was killed off in one of the best comic stories ever written.

You talk about how well the Mar-Vell mini sold, but keep in mind that none of the people buying it knew until issue 5 that he was a Skrull. Tough to say how well the character would have sold after Reed's reveal that issue. Would all, most, many, or just a few of the people who bought it thinking Mar-Vell had returned continue buying it after they'd learned the truth? We'll never know.

Some of us told you then that we thought it was lame and bad storytelling. I also said that I thought it extremely likely the Skrull Mar-Vell would be killed off in Secret Invasion. I apologize for saying I told you so, but geez, it seemed like the logical next step after revealing he was a Skrull. (Granted, even I didn't expect a little 3-panel throwaway moment like we got.)

I understand you're bummed about the whole thing. I really don't know what Marvel's goal was with this, but it seems like they managed to initially tick off the many fans who wanted Mar-Vell's death left untouched, and have now managed to tick off the fans who wanted this one to stick around. Good job! All around a colossal screw-up by Marvel, although I guess they got their money from the sales of the miniseries, which is something.

[rajincajun689]

wow. You need to get a girlfriend/boyfriend/whatever you're into. Either way I agree with you kind of.

[syzygy89]

One of the things that I thought was awesome about the new Mar-Vell, was that he didn't really screw up the death of the original Captain Marvel. This new Mar-Vell could have given us more Captain Marvel stories that wouldn't undermine anything about the original character. The idea might be similar to Bucky as Captain America because it would be a flawed character trying to take up the mantle of such a great hero, but I think it would have been really cool. That and the Kree in a Skrull body thing could have given us some awesome stories that would respect the original character.
Instead he died in three panels. Hell, he practically died offscreen.
It just seems like such a waste to me, especially because I don't care that much about Marvel Boy. Hopefully I'll be wrong and Marvel Boy will be cool.