Why are non-American supers so damn pathetic?

[AllisterH]

Ok, I got a question after reading the last GL issue.

Why the hell are the DC universe non-American metas so damn pathetic? Not just the heroes but the villains as well.

I'm not taling metas like Savage who existed long before modern nation states.

Magento, Doom, Graviton, the Presence and others are all non-American but major players in the MU. 3 of the above actually are from "real" world countries.

Then you things like Alpha Flight, the New X-men and Excalibur both of which showed that if say the Avengers weren't around, marvel Earth still has teams that can stand up to any threat.

Hell, the Avengers themselves have many non-America supers but compare this to Justice League International.

If say, for example, all of the American heroes in the MU disappear, Marvel can probably still easily fight off Galactus IMO whereas in DCU, you get rid of the American heroes, I'd be surprised if Joker by himself wouldn't bend them over.

Why is this?

[Aaron King]

The Black Adam Family is awesome. The Great Ten are new but cool. Neither are pathetic.

[Ontir]

Well, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, the Martian Manhunter, and technically, Superman and the current Flash are non-Americans.

Same for Kilowog, and he's friggin' cool!

There are a number of throw-away foreign heroes - Marvel has 'em too - who were never given a great deal of thought, to begin with, and so end up being sort of one-note, basic cultural references in a cape and cowl.

[Sijo]

DC has some cool international heroes- they just never develop them well, the way Marvel has. I always thought Global Guardians would make a great series. But we'll probably have to wait until the "it's easier to kill off characters than develop them" mentality DC currently has before they're given a true chance. The Black Marvels are doomed to failure, for example. Just watch.

[AllisterH]

Originally Posted by Aaron King

The Black Adam Family is awesome. The Great Ten are new but cool. Neither are pathetic.

I'll give you the Black Adam family and they can, if Adam is anything to inidicate, can hold their own against most American supers.

However, the Great Ten have done nothing to justify their coolness. Love their names but in 52, they were shown as ineffective due to "the paperwork".

Take the proposed "World War III" as the blockbuster for DC this year. Um, exactly which team of non-american supers can stand up to even the freaking Freedom fighters, to say nothing of either the Titans, or heaven forbid, the JSA or the JLA?

So how the hell does DC expect to have a world war?

The Rocket Reds, please. Their outdated battlesutis are pathetic (Hell, the Crimson Dynamo from Marvel has be shown to be more powerful than any RR).

The Great Ten? They got pwned by just two GLs. TWO!!!. Yet you expect them to fight off the JSA?

In marvel, if say we had a Team USA vs Rest of the World, I wouldn't bet on Team America. Way too many non-america heroes who are freaking powerful.
In DC? What's the best the non-American "real world" countries have to offer (thus discounting places like Khandaq, Atlantis and Themsyirca)?

[AllisterH]

Originally Posted by Ontir

Well, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, the Martian Manhunter, and technically, Superman and the current Flash are non-Americans.

Same for Kilowog, and he's friggin' cool!

.

WW - Non-American but who is identified with America thanks to her connection pre and post-Crisis?

Aquaman - I'll give you but then again, there's no Atlantis in our world. At least Marvel Canada has enough resources to field ENTIRE football teams of supers.

MM and Superman - I consider American (especially Superman) who neither would I consider as heroes for the "rest of the World".

This is like arguing that since Martian Manhunter is green, the Silver Age Satellite era Justice League wasn't "white-only" crowd.

Sure, marvel has throwaway foreign heroes, but let's see, does DC have anyone on the status of Magento, Storm, Wolverine, Black Widow, Graviton, the Presence?

The most famous non-american meta from a real-world country in the DCU is Captain Boomerang and Fire. BOOMERBUTT is the best DC can do?

[Gozwald73]

Tasmanian Devil - Australian
Dr Light II - Japanese
Green Arow II - grew up in the Himalayas
Ice - Norwegian

all of the above are cool

besides, I can think of PLENTY of American heroes that are lame-o - so I don't hold any validity to your thread title

[Magneto_X]

Because the primary market for super-heroes are America.

[Bat-Mite]

and the current Flash are non-Americans.

Wasn't Bart born in America, but in the future? Or was he born in the 30th century Haiti or something and nobody told me?

[Bat-Mite]

Wonder Woman may like America, but she is Greek.

I don't know exactly what kind of ruler we are using the measure whatever the heck we are measuring here. Power? recognizability?

Anyway, major international DC characters...

Ra's Al Ghul - From God knows where, The Middle East.

Circe - Greek.

Somebody already mentioned Black Adam.

Sonar - He lives in some made up country.

Janissary - Turkey (The less said about the rest of the Planet DC annual guys, the better)

Every Nazi villain from Germany - Captain Nazi, the Ultrahumanite, the rest.

Canada has the Force Family: A long dynasty of humans who for whatever reason had a tendency to fall into radioactive vats, or get bitten by aliens and get powers.

Also all the Ultra-Marines from JLA.

Aquaman - I'll give you but then again, there's no Atlantis in our world.

There is no Latveria, but you mentioned Doom.

So how the hell does DC expect to have a world war?

Every country in the DCU has metas. Not only that, but even third world hell holes have secret projects to either kill metas, or manufacture them. As seen in several issues, including JLA Classified: The Hypothetical Woman.

[Bat-Mite]

I just remembered more

Dr. Light II from Japan. Japan will also have in 52 the Most Excellent Super-Bat, and with a name like that he just can't suck.

Mirror Master from Scotland.

Lady Whiva Wu San and Cassie Kane from China.

Scandal Savage from Brazil (also the home of Fire)

[Sir Tim Drake]

Almost the entire membership of the Legion of Super-Heroes is non-American, if "American" even means anything in the 30th/31st century.

[Ontir]

Originally Posted by AllisterH

Sure, marvel has throwaway foreign heroes, but let's see, does DC have anyone on the status of Magento, Storm, Wolverine, Black Widow, Graviton, the Presence?

Raven

The entire Legion of Super-Heroes, a number of whom are from Earth.

Despite her costume, Wonder Woman is the Crown Princess of a foreign nation, who grew up in that nation, and is very much NOT an American (more so even than Aquaman) - she still counts! As she's one of the 3 major super-heroes, that puts her a notch above Magneto, et al.

As Gozwald73 pointed out, the 2nd Dr. Light is pretty damn good.

There's also Fire who, IIRC, is from Brazil.

Hawkman is an ancient Egyptian Prince, reincarnated in an alien body, while Hawkgirl is an ancient Egyptian, reincarnated in an American body, so you've got to at least count him, and her as a half.

Ràs al Guhl and his daughter Talia are major league, heavy hitters, not to mention his henchman, Bork.

There's the old Batman villain, the Monk, who is a European vampire.

The greatest Wonder Woman villain ever - Baroness Paula von Gunther.

Terra & her brother Geo Force.

Red Star, formerly Starfire.

Rocket Red

Elite's Manchester Black.

The Marvel Family villain, Captain Nazi, who despite his antiquated name, is still a tough customer.

I-Ching

Adam Tet

Aqualad/Tempest

Donna Troy/Wonder Girl/Troia/Darkstar is, at the very least, international.

...and BTW, "Atlantis" was almost certainly poetic license (a bastardisation of the word "atalantis," which means "catastrophe"), taken by Plato, when recounting a tale that Solon brought to Greece from Egypt, about the destruction of their trading partners, the Kepchu, who were better known to the Greeks, as the Minnoans. They were wiped out when the central part of the island Thera exploded in a way that made Krakatau look like a cherry bomb, and the subsequent tsunamis scoured almost all traces of their civilisation off the remaining part of their homeland, the island we now call Crete. The Egyptian records of this civilisation, show the concentric circles, later described by Plato, and from the excavations of the Palace Knossos, we know that they had indoor plumbing, which ran to the 3rd floor, which included hot and cold running water, and toilets. "Atlantis" was real.

[Apathy Boy]

I believe Marvel has made more efforts to publish comics overseas, which may partly account for their more prominent foreign (to us) supers. Marvel UK has been operating for several years, and I think Marvel may also have set something up in France. I don't think DC has tried anything similar.

I do think it's a bit disingenuous to claim the likes of Magneto and Graviton as foreigners, though. They may have been born elsewhere, but most of their adventures seem to take place in the States or in space. Hell, I didn't even realize Graviton was non-American. If you count them, you have to count Wonder Woman.

And hey, don't forget that DC's Britain has John Constantine. That's one guy you don't want to be calling pathetic.

(A tangent: I've lived in Canada my entire life, and I still don't know what an "Alpha Flight" is. I mean, I know they're a team of horribly stereotypical charicatures, but what does the phrase mean?)

[Green Lantern wannabe]

I believe we hit on something ...

Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and the Martian Manhunter are not Americans, but they have identities in the US. Why? Because they can get better paying jobs and more lucrative movie offers. Taxes are also lower than elsewhere. :D