War With New Krypton

[meathead320]

I think he is trying to say that having a bunch of Kryptonians running around reduces Superman in him no longer being the unique “last son of krypton”.

He is just another Kryptonian. He has great values, and moral core, and that is why he is still Superman, but his power source of being a Kryptonian is now common.

I don't think he meant that powers alone define Superman.

Anyway, I do think that NK distrupts the power balance a great deal, and I think it is not going to last long.

That and I never really cared for these types of stories. OUr World at War, etc... never did it for me either. I like the more classic type Superman stories, that are not all DC Universe world altering events.

[CYOTI]

The Last Son concept that hasn't been significant to Superman's history since the post-Crisis era when he is identified more as Clark Kent and not as Superman or Kal-el and when Krypton has been deconstructed by the current writers and by Byrne not as the epitome of civilization, but as what should be avoided.

[jamesfreeman]

Originally Posted by meathead320

I think he is trying to say that having a bunch of Kryptonians running around reduces Superman in him no longer being the unique “last son of krypton”.

He is just another Kryptonian. He has great values, and moral core, and that is why he is still Superman, but his power source of being a Kryptonian is now common.

I don't think he meant that powers alone define Superman.

Anyway, I do think that NK distrupts the power balance a great deal, and I think it is not going to last long.

That and I never really cared for these types of stories. OUr World at War, etc... never did it for me either. I like the more classic type Superman stories, that are not all DC Universe world altering events.

I think that as it is, we have enough Krptonians running around on Earth, and I love them all. But I think outside of the Superman family, there isn't a need to have that many more Kryptonians running around.

Now, I'll agree that the Last Son aspect hasn't been real or relevent since Supergirl's debut, I just don't like all these other K's running around in addition to the other Superman-level heroes on Earth.

[Mat001]

Originally Posted by jamesfreeman

Now, I'll agree that the Last Son aspect hasn't been real or relevent since Supergirl's debut, I just don't like all these other K's running around in addition to the other Superman-level heroes on Earth.

We don't need 7200 Green Lanterns, but we've got them. Same with speedsters, Thanagarians and other metas.

[meathead320]

Originally Posted by Mat001

We don't need 7200 Green Lanterns, but we've got them. Same with speedsters, Thanagarians and other metas.

Sure, but we don't have them all on and or close to earth at the same time either for an extended time period.

I just don't really like the concept of there being that many kryptonians all over the place.

I think having several more in the universe, spread out across the Universe is fine, living in small pockets by yellow suns in distant galaxies, and rarely dealt with, other than Superman himself, and maybe Kara is cool.

Just having a whole lot of them right next door, in our solar system? Not really digging it.

[CYOTI]

Originally Posted by meathead320

Sure, but we don't have them all on and or close to earth at the same time either for an extended time period.

Yes we do. There are several moons filled with Saturnians who have powers en par with the martians and with numbers far in excess of the population of New Krypton.

[dupersuper]

Originally Posted by CYOTI

Yes we do. There are several moons filled with Saturnians who have powers en par with the martians and with numbers far in excess of the population of New Krypton.

Yeah...what in blazes have they been doing all this time anyway? We sure could have used their help during Our Worlds at War, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, Sinestro War...I guess you can try to destroy the universe as long as you don't move any moons around...

[Mat001]

Originally Posted by meathead320

Sure, but we don't have them all on and or close to earth at the same time either for an extended time period.

We've got four GLC members on Earth quite often over the years, plus the honorary member known as Alan Scott. Plus in the mid to late 80's, up to eight GL's were on Earth following the first Crisis and through "Millenium". Then it was three at a time until Green Lantern #11, third series.

I just don't really like the concept of there being that many kryptonians all over the place.

Well, New Krypton is their home.

I think having several more in the universe, spread out across the Universe is fine, living in small pockets by yellow suns in distant galaxies, and rarely dealt with, other than Superman himself, and maybe Kara is cool.

Just having a whole lot of them right next door, in our solar system? Not really digging it.

That's the whole point of having a war.

Originally Posted by dupersuper

Yeah...what in blazes have they been doing all this time anyway? We sure could have used their help during Our Worlds at War, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, Sinestro War...I guess you can try to destroy the universe as long as you don't move any moons around...

Not for another thousand years.

[Captain Smith]

Originally Posted by CYOTI

So Superman is special in your view not because of his moral virtues and source of inspiration, but rather because he is the baddest and the strongest amongst the heroes?

If so I find that pov particularly sad and shows a lack of understanding of the character.

Haha - you made my point. It's just his personality. The character wasn't started as NiceGuyMan or the Man of Personality.

He was Superman, the Man of Steel - able to leap tall buildings - not be a good guy to eat pizza with or take Sis to the Kansas State Fair.

It is you who have worship view of Kal. Let's have him lose all his powers and have a book about his relationships. Have him start a Dr. Phil talk show and see if that book sells.

Superman was unique as the Last Son and being top of the power line. That's been all given away. Plot devices (like super-song fests) have to be designed to keep him relevant to the universe's power structure.

Being a long time reader - the character has been gutted. He has no unique moral values as compared to the many caring and altruistic people on Earth. It's hard to see what makes him an icon to the public. They don't go on a date with him. They just seem him in monster fight mode and he has gone nuts enough to be suspect.

Supergirl and Krypto were enough. Look at Smallville - straining mightly with the idea that Clark isn't a putz and now they have a gaggle of Kryptonians showing up. You can't make him an icon in that situation.

It is your projection on the character (like Brandon love) as compared to the reality of the character in the DCU that is sad.

[The Scarlet Sapien]

Originally Posted by Mat001

Earth would only be a goner if the Kryptonians did what the Pocket Earth Phantom Zoners did. But there is Kryptonite, red sun, magic and Earth's heroes.

Wouldn't the kryptonians just use their superior tech to neutralise the Kryptonite, heroes and red sun offensives? Magic.... I don't know what you do about magic. Find magic users of your own I guess.

[Mat001]

Originally Posted by Captain Smith

Haha - you made my point. It's just his personality. The character wasn't started as NiceGuyMan or the Man of Personality.

He was Superman, the Man of Steel - able to leap tall buildings - not be a good guy to eat pizza with or take Sis to the Kansas State Fair.

It is you who have worship view of Kal. Let's have him lose all his powers and have a book about his relationships. Have him start a Dr. Phil talk show and see if that book sells.

Superman was unique as the Last Son and being top of the power line. That's been all given away. Plot devices (like super-song fests) have to be designed to keep him relevant to the universe's power structure.

Being a long time reader - the character has been gutted. He has no unique moral values as compared to the many caring and altruistic people on Earth. It's hard to see what makes him an icon to the public. They don't go on a date with him. They just seem him in monster fight mode and he has gone nuts enough to be suspect.

Supergirl and Krypto were enough. Look at Smallville - straining mightly with the idea that Clark isn't a putz and now they have a gaggle of Kryptonians showing up. You can't make him an icon in that situation.

It is your projection on the character (like Brandon love) as compared to the reality of the character in the DCU that is sad.

Superman is an icon to the public in the DCU, because he does his best to inspire people to be selfless and compassionate. He was able to bring back the age of heroes and was the champion of everyone, both human and alien. It's not his powers, but how and why he chooses to utilize them. Not because of a personal tragedy as many of the other heroes around him, but out of a desire to help humanity. That's why when DC gave him energy powers, he was still Superman in spite of that. Being unique doesn't make you the greatest. There's a reason that he's more remember a thousand years later, than the other heroes and it's not what he could do, but how.

Originally Posted by The Scarlet Sapien

Wouldn't the kryptonians just use their superior tech to neutralise the Kryptonite, heroes and red sun offensives? Magic.... I don't know what you do about magic. Find magic users of your own I guess.

Since Superman, who has had Kryptonian technology for years, cannot nuteralize Kryptonite other than putting on a lead suit, what makes you think the Science Guild could do better? Red sunlight can only be countered with yellow solar flash grenades, but if the sun was turned into a red sun, then it doesn't matter. See "Superman & The Legion Of Super-Heroes". And obviously Krypton never nuteralized the Thangarians and the other alien races abilities and technology. Their real offense lays with the warships or totally annhilating Earth and Zod wants Earth.

[CYOTI]

Originally Posted by Captain Smith

He was Superman, the Man of Steel - able to leap tall buildings - not be a good guy to eat pizza with or take Sis to the Kansas State Fair.

The difference between Superman we know and the imitations will always be his character, his moral virtue and his ability to inspire. WIthout those, you'll just get something as bland as the Sentry or at worse something like Liefeld's Supreme before Alan Moore redid him. And if you just want the baddest hero without the morality frankly you should just go read those backissues of Supreme and savour how horrible they were.

He has no unique moral values as compared to the many caring and altruistic people on Earth.

Yes he does. He continues to fight the good fight without stepping over the line like Wonder Woman and Batman. He perseveres, he doesn't sell out (like Iron Man or Spider-Man) and he inspires and he is fair. Thats what makes him wonderful not the powers and the last son crap, those are just the bells and whistles. The core of Superman is not that he represents Krypton, but he represents everything good about us and about America, those very virtues that you disdain.

Look at Smallville - straining mightly with the idea that Clark isn't a putz and now they have a gaggle of Kryptonians showing up.

Yes lets overlook the fact that Smallville started out as a teen drama or the fact that it was horribly written with the likes of Jeph Loeb onboard or that the writers and actors were actually embarrassed about anything related to Superman (such as the costume) unless it served to create emo angst.

[volrath50]

Originally Posted by CYOTI

The difference between Superman we know and the imitations will always be his character, his moral virtue and his ability to inspire. WIthout those, you'll just get something as bland as the Sentry or at worse something like Liefeld's Supreme before Alan Moore redid him. And if you just want the baddest hero without the morality frankly you should just go read those backissues of Supreme and savour how horrible they were.

On that note, I just want to plug JMS' Supreme Power series, with Hyperion being a great example of a Superman that wasn't raised in a true loving, friendly environment.

[dupersuper]

Originally Posted by Mat001

Not for another thousand years.

Huh??

Originally Posted by Mat001

Since Superman, who has had Kryptonian technology for years, cannot nuteralize Kryptonite other than putting on a lead suit, what makes you think the Science Guild could do better? .

The have a whole civilization with an entire science guild to work on it, while Superman was 1 guy who didn't even have a fortress for years, and spent the vast majority of his free time saving people from accidents, villains and natural disasters...?

[aut0matic]

Originally Posted by Munkiman

I think they need to solve this with diplomacy or something, because Earth stands zero chance against New Krypton. It's just ridiculously easy for them to destroy the planet.

Unless maybe all of Earth's superheroes AND supervillains, the entire Green Lantern Corps, Blue Lantern Corps and Star Sapphire Corps (heck, maybe Sinestro Corps, too - New Krypton is a threat to everyone), Thanagar, maybe Rann, and a few other alien empires all teamed up to fight New Krypton. Then we'd have a chance.

have a chance? that would be the curbstomp to end all curbstomps...

hal and saint walker alone could presumably turn new krypton's sun red. i guess the entire gl corps, blue lantern corps, star sapphire corps, sinestro corps, rann and thanagar would be there for moral support?