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ServiceGames · 11-24-2009, 08:35 PM

In "Born," Castle was a Captain. Now, I haven't done the research on what it took to become an officer during the Vietnam Conflict, but I have talked to people who are currently in the military or were recently in the military about what it takes to be an officer today.

The easiest way is a college degree + O-School = O-1. In the Marines, that's a 2nd Lieutenant. An O-3 would be a Captain (in other words, two promotions). Now, while Castle is a great tactician, my guess is that he learned that through experience and not through a college degree. So, more than likely, that means he enlisted. I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule, but to go from E-1 to O-3 in any branch of service would, my guess, take around 10 years. Go from Enlisted to Noncom to O-School to O-1 to eventual O-3.

All that said, keeping in mind that Castle probably enlisted, that would put him at around the age of 28 to 30 years old in 1971 when "Born" took place. Ennis started writing Punisher MAX in 2004, and in the first issue, he even wrote the cops following Castle mentioned that Castle looks good for his age. Does this mean that, in Punisher MAX, Castle is 60+ years old?

Granted, I understand that the MAX universe doesn't follow the same continuity as the Marvel Universe, but the way the comic looks, it appears as though it's taking place in 2004. And, in several covers, Frank has a good bit of gray hair. It just seems odd that he would be able to do what he does at over 60 years old even being in great shape.

Am I missing something?

SG

DetectiveDupin · 11-24-2009, 09:02 PM

When Ennis wrote Punisher he said he was about 50.

ServiceGames · 11-24-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DetectiveDupin

When Ennis wrote Punisher he said he was about 50.

Thanks!

SG

DetectiveDupin · 11-24-2009, 09:40 PM

No problem.

ServiceGames · 11-24-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DetectiveDupin

No problem.

The last villain you have on your list is the most evil of them all. I couldn't help but chuckle when I saw that.

SG

ServiceGames · 11-24-2009, 10:02 PM

One last question. Was it ever explained what was talking to Frank in "Born?" Was it just a voice in his head? Was it his conscience or lack thereof? Or was it something else completely?

SG

Jake V · 11-25-2009, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ServiceGames

One last question. Was it ever explained what was talking to Frank in "Born?" Was it just a voice in his head? Was it his conscience or lack thereof? Or was it something else completely?

SG

Ennis basically said it was death itself.

Additionally, in MAX continuity, Frank was born in 1950, shown here: You have to kind of squint though.

So that would make him 21 during Born. They do say in the book that he was the youngest captain ever in the marines, probably because of how good he was.

keilthetarheel · 11-25-2009, 09:26 AM

Yeah making Frank a captain was pretty unrealistic. Even for an enlisted guy to go to OCS (officers candidacy school), it typically takes at least some college credits. That being said, it could be argued that once a second lieutenant, he could have made first lieutenant, and then captain in Vietnam pretty rapidly. It is not uncommon for good soldiers to make rank jumps more quickly in combat simply because of higher ranking officers getting killed. But this is particularly common in the enlisted ranks in wars, with guy going from private to corporal to sergeant pretty fast because of high mortality rates

Jake V · 11-25-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keilthetarheel

Yeah making Frank a captain was pretty unrealistic. Even for an enlisted guy to go to OCS (officers candidacy school), it typically takes at least some college credits. That being said, it could be argued that once a second lieutenant, he could have made first lieutenant, and then captain in Vietnam pretty rapidly. It is not uncommon for good soldiers to make rank jumps more quickly in combat simply because of higher ranking officers getting killed. But this is particularly common in the enlisted ranks in wars, with guy going from private to corporal to sergeant pretty fast because of high mortality rates

Given how often his superior officers got killed in Born, Castle's promotion seems likely.

SomeBodyAtCBR · 11-25-2009, 12:33 PM

It's been a while since I read it, but couldn't he have gone to college before he enlisted? He could have had an associates before he went to Nam, then promoted quickly for his skills.

But yeah, the MAX series is done in current time, having Castle been Punisher for decades, so yeah, he is about 60 years old at this point. It's damn good.

Except that Ennis gave him another fucking kid. He's the fucking Punisher, he shouldn't be having sex with other women while he's trying to do all this killing to avenge the death of his family. He can't get over the death of his wife, but he can fuck other women?

Ennis is a good writer, but he besmirches his stuff by adding in excessive racial slurs, cursing and nudity to make his work MATURE!!!!1!!

Jake V · 11-25-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeBodyAtCBR

It's been a while since I read it, but couldn't he have gone to college before he enlisted? He could have had an associates before he went to Nam, then promoted quickly for his skills.

But yeah, the MAX series is done in current time, having Castle been Punisher for decades, so yeah, he is about 60 years old at this point. It's damn good.

Except that Ennis gave him another fucking kid. He's the fucking Punisher, he shouldn't be having sex with other women while he's trying to do all this killing to avenge the death of his family. He can't get over the death of his wife, but he can fuck other women?

Ennis is a good writer, but he besmirches his stuff by adding in excessive racial slurs, cursing and nudity to make his work MATURE!!!!1!!

Thats honestly what you think?

You haven't been reading very closely.

SomeBodyAtCBR · 11-25-2009, 12:45 PM

Not just his wife, but his entire family, which includes his wife. What am I missing?

Jake V · 11-25-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeBodyAtCBR

Not just his wife, but his entire family, which includes his wife. What am I missing?

Read "The Cell" one shot. He avenged their deaths, but his war goes on because he wants it to.

**Expletive Deleted** · 11-25-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake V

Ennis basically said it was death itself.

Although he did leave it nicely vague, in terms of what's on the page.

xheight · 11-25-2009, 02:19 PM

38 divided by 3 = 12.6 that's only 33 years old by Marvel scale

11-24-2009, 08:35 PM	#1
ServiceGames I like teh comic books Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 20	Need some help understanding Frank's age in Punisher MAX (Ennis) In "Born," Castle was a Captain. Now, I haven't done the research on what it took to become an officer during the Vietnam Conflict, but I have talked to people who are currently in the military or were recently in the military about what it takes to be an officer today. The easiest way is a college degree + O-School = O-1. In the Marines, that's a 2nd Lieutenant. An O-3 would be a Captain (in other words, two promotions). Now, while Castle is a great tactician, my guess is that he learned that through experience and not through a college degree. So, more than likely, that means he enlisted. I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule, but to go from E-1 to O-3 in any branch of service would, my guess, take around 10 years. Go from Enlisted to Noncom to O-School to O-1 to eventual O-3. All that said, keeping in mind that Castle probably enlisted, that would put him at around the age of 28 to 30 years old in 1971 when "Born" took place. Ennis started writing Punisher MAX in 2004, and in the first issue, he even wrote the cops following Castle mentioned that Castle looks good for his age. Does this mean that, in Punisher MAX, Castle is 60+ years old? Granted, I understand that the MAX universe doesn't follow the same continuity as the Marvel Universe, but the way the comic looks, it appears as though it's taking place in 2004. And, in several covers, Frank has a good bit of gray hair. It just seems odd that he would be able to do what he does at over 60 years old even being in great shape. Am I missing something? SG Last edited by ServiceGames; 11-24-2009 at 08:39 PM.

11-24-2009, 09:02 PM	#2
DetectiveDupin Gonna break yo' neck Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,133	When Ennis wrote Punisher he said he was about 50. __________________ Come discuss Morrison's Batman and help solve mysteries here.

11-24-2009, 09:40 PM	#4
DetectiveDupin Gonna break yo' neck Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,133	No problem. __________________ Come discuss Morrison's Batman and help solve mysteries here.

11-25-2009, 02:19 PM	#15
xheight Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 178	38 divided by 3 = 12.6 that's only 33 years old by Marvel scale __________________ "The folly of mistaking a paradox for a discovery, a metaphor for a proof, a torrent of verbiage for a spring of capital truths, and oneself for an oracle, is inborn in us." (Paul Valery) - thus my blog In extremis

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11-24-2009, 10:02 PM	#6
ServiceGames I like teh comic books Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 20	One last question. Was it ever explained what was talking to Frank in "Born?" Was it just a voice in his head? Was it his conscience or lack thereof? Or was it something else completely? SG

11-25-2009, 09:26 AM	#8
keilthetarheel Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 498	Yeah making Frank a captain was pretty unrealistic. Even for an enlisted guy to go to OCS (officers candidacy school), it typically takes at least some college credits. That being said, it could be argued that once a second lieutenant, he could have made first lieutenant, and then captain in Vietnam pretty rapidly. It is not uncommon for good soldiers to make rank jumps more quickly in combat simply because of higher ranking officers getting killed. But this is particularly common in the enlisted ranks in wars, with guy going from private to corporal to sergeant pretty fast because of high mortality rates

11-25-2009, 12:33 PM	#10
SomeBodyAtCBR Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 449	It's been a while since I read it, but couldn't he have gone to college before he enlisted? He could have had an associates before he went to Nam, then promoted quickly for his skills. But yeah, the MAX series is done in current time, having Castle been Punisher for decades, so yeah, he is about 60 years old at this point. It's damn good. Except that Ennis gave him another fucking kid. He's the fucking Punisher, he shouldn't be having sex with other women while he's trying to do all this killing to avenge the death of his family. He can't get over the death of his wife, but he can fuck other women? Ennis is a good writer, but he besmirches his stuff by adding in excessive racial slurs, cursing and nudity to make his work MATURE!!!!1!!

11-25-2009, 12:45 PM	#12
SomeBodyAtCBR Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 449	Not just his wife, but his entire family, which includes his wife. What am I missing?