Punisher #11 *Spoilers*

[FearEmbodied]

Okay, I know I'm going to get venom spit all over me by some of the other die-hards here, but I thought this was a fun little read. It's still an awful idea, but at least it's an awful idea I can have a little bit of fun with. The art was great, I always knew that was going to be the definite upside to the arc. I did think there were a couple of sigh worthy parts though. Like the bit of Hulk-speak Frank goes through.

I didn't think it was terrible or the end of everything I know and love about the mainstream Punisher books. Frank kicks Man-thing in the face after all. I'll keep reading.

What did you folks think? I don't even think I have to ask.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

Loved it. Definitely met my expectations. An idea this crazy needed the execution to justify it, and Remender delivered.

Doesn't hurt to have Moore on art either. I can't imagine many other artists who are as suited to the supernatural and the ugly as he is (Exterminators is still unreadable for me on some panels).

[docholliday504]

Originally Posted by FearEmbodied

Okay, I know I'm going to get venom spit all over me by some of the other die-hards here, but I thought this was a fun little read. It's still an awful idea, but at least it's an awful idea I can have a little bit of fun with. The art was great, I always knew that was going to be the definite upside to the arc. I did think there were a couple of sigh worthy parts though. Like the bit of Hulk-speak Frank goes through.

I didn't think it was terrible or the end of everything I know and love about the mainstream Punisher books. Frank kicks Man-thing in the face after all. I'll keep reading.

What did you folks think? I don't even think I have to ask.

I can't read this. I'm sorry I wouldn't be able to live with myself afterwards. I loved Remender's series till this point, but I can't for the life of me bring myself to spend 3 bucks on this. I'm just gonna read spoilers and close my eyes until it goes away.

[Shallot]

I had mixed reactions to the last arc. I can take the Punisher in short doses but eventually the fact that he beats just about everyone annoys me. Most of those resurrected villains should have eaten him for breakfast.

So why not go over the top? Frank as Frankenstein hanging with the Legion of Monsters? It's so nutty that I'll be checking it out.

[docholliday504]

Originally Posted by Shallot

I had mixed reactions to the last arc. I can take the Punisher in short doses but eventually the fact that he beats just about everyone annoys me. Most of those resurrected villains should have eaten him for breakfast.

So why not go over the top? Frank as Frankenstein hanging with the Legion of Monsters? It's so nutty that I'll be checking it out.

See I've always loved how the 616 Frank can stand with hard hitters in the Marvel U and still come out on top sometimes. It's part of what makes his character so friggin rad. He's just that good. Frank is so good Captain America would send him on an important mission when he has 40 other super humans at his disposal (See Civil War). Remender was able to make Frank escaping from the Sentry believable and I loved it. And therein lies my problem with Frankenpunisher. There are literally thousands of characters in the Marvel Univers who could have used an overhaul like this. Frank was not one of them. You take a guy who's main appeal is that he's a bad a$$ normal human in the Super-human game and turn him into a superpowered undead freak. It's pretty much the exact same mistake they made with angel punisher done a decade later....Man it chaps my behind.....

[graffiX]

I liked it. Like Shallot said, it's so crazy and off the wall and I'm curious as to what's next.

I would have liked to have seen him getting stitched up/put back together, but thats a minor complaint. I wonder how they reanimated him? Guess we'll find out.

[Shallot]

I'm sure Frankencastle will wind up being compared and categorized with the now infamous Angel of Vengeance era. Long term it will hurt the character probably. Readers will cringe when character X asks Frank "Hey, remember that time you got cut up into pieces and came back as Frankenstein?"

I'm of a different opinion of Frank in the mainstream Marvel Universe. I've always thought he works best in the Max continuity where he can be as bad and as violent as he can be. I simply don't think the majority of Marvel heroes(and Cap is the perfect example), would have allowed him to function as a rogue agent for so long, making his own rules and killing indiscriminately. I'm not a regular Punisher reader though, so I haven't been privy to a good chunk of stories where he might have shown his effectiveness agains super-powered opponents. Whenever I do glance through it I find him choking out Tiger Shark with a chain, or something like that and I put it back while shaking my head.

[Majinoaw]

Originally Posted by Shallot

I'm sure Frankencastle will wind up being compared and categorized with the now infamous Angel of Vengeance era. Long term it will hurt the character probably. Readers will cringe when character X asks Frank "Hey, remember that time you got cut up into pieces and came back as Frankenstein?"

I'm of a different opinion of Frank in the mainstream Marvel Universe. I've always thought he works best in the Max continuity where he can be as bad and as violent as he can be. I simply don't think the majority of Marvel heroes(and Cap is the perfect example), would have allowed him to function as a rogue agent for so long, making his own rules and killing indiscriminately. I'm not a regular Punisher reader though, so I haven't been privy to a good chunk of stories where he might have shown his effectiveness agains super-powered opponents. Whenever I do glance through it I find him choking out Tiger Shark with a chain, or something like that and I put it back while shaking my head.

Frank doesn't work that well in the 616. He's believable in MAX, which is more realistic.I did like his role in Civil War though.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Originally Posted by Majinoaw

Frank doesn't work that well in the 616. He's believable in MAX, which is more realistic.I did like his role in Civil War though.

More realistic? Where he's been doing this for decades, triple digit body count, *doesn't* have a constant FBI taskforce dedicated to taking him down and is pushing 60?

You sure about that? ;)

[Majinoaw]

Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy

More realistic? Where he's been doing this for decades, triple digit body count, *doesn't* have a constant FBI taskforce dedicated to taking him down and is pushing 60?

You sure about that? ;)

Never challenge or question me again and we'll get along just fine.

[docholliday504]

Originally Posted by Shallot

Whenever I do glance through it I find him choking out Tiger Shark with a chain, or something like that and I put it back while shaking my head.

I guess we fundamentally disagree on that point. I love it in comics when the normal guy proves more than a match for the Super-Human. Batman vs. Superman is the classic example. Given Supes power set, he should logically be able to take Batman down by batting his eyelashes. But through the magic of comic books, Batman can sometimes win. Same goes for punisher. I always just felt like the guy was just so angry and so tactically intelligent that he could take on (And by take on....I mean Kill) anyone in the marvel universe if he put his mind to it.

[pharoahe22]

Originally Posted by docholliday504

I can't read this. I'm sorry I wouldn't be able to live with myself afterwards. I loved Remender's series till this point, but I can't for the life of me bring myself to spend 3 bucks on this. I'm just gonna read spoilers and close my eyes until it goes away.

I think you should at least read it before dismissing it.

1) This is obviously not going to last. As we've seen in War Machine, duplicate bodies can be made all willy-nilly in the 616.

2) There's still a Punisher book out there for your specific tastes, so it's not like this is the end of the world for the Punisher as you know and love him...it's just a little interlude in his history.

3) The art is fantastic

4) It's actually a really really fun read.

I think you should just say to yourself: "ok, this isn't going to last, so knowing that, I should check it out...just to make sure I'm not missing anything"

I never try to formulate an opinion on something until I've actually tried it out. If you hate it after you read it, that's 1 thing...but to hate something that you haven't even read seems kind of close-minded. It's absurd, over the top, different and fun. I like it when the writers try new things with established characters...sometimes it a hit, sometimes it's a miss, but at least they're shaking it up a bit. And, last, let's be honest...the Punisher should've died waaaay more times than he has doing what he does...so if they want to kill him & try something new, be my guest...just make it a good story before you change him back to normal.

[worstblogever]

Well, I was happy to see Morbius, Werewolf by Night, Man-Thing, and the Moloids, in any event.

Under these circumstances, though? Man... Frank in the middle of this filling out the token Frankenstein part of the L.O.M. is a downer. Otherwise, I like the idea.

[turok]

Haven't read it yet but am looking forward to it. Like others have said, it's only going to last 6-12 months and there's always max. And who doesn't like monsters?

One of the problems with 616 Punisher is people will bemoan the fact he isn't killing any "big" villains, but he can't go around killing other books badguy's either.

I'd keep him after mafia/organized crime types but every now and then he encounters a hero who he has to escape from, or maybe he gets caught which leads into a Frank in prison story. He could have ongoing battles with Jigsaw, Hammerhead,Kingpin and other gangster types.

I don't think a 616 Punisher has to be "punisher lite" cause lets face it you can get away with alot in a rated "T" book nowadays. Just tell a good crime story. Oh yeah this Franken castle business will probably de-age/infinity formula him which I guess is fine as long as they don't keep calling attention to it.

[ANewHope]

I ended up buying it. It'll be on my high priority/drop/pull list.

But couldnt help myself. We'll see where this goes for a couple issues.