Does Hulk rely too much on guest stars?

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

It's occurred to me of late that the Hulk relies waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much on guest stars in his titles. I appreciate and enjoy the concept of Marvel's "shared universe." However, one thing that I think keeps the Hulk from flourishing as a character is that he relies too much on characters from outside the "Hulk family" to bring readers in.

In the short-term, let's look at Loeb's title. Here's a breakdown of who's appeared in each issue from outside the main Hulk family:

#1: She-Hulk, Iron Man, Maria Hill, the Soviet Super-Soldiers.
#2-3: She-Hulk, Iron Man, Maria Hill.
#4: She-Hulk, Iron Man, Maria Hill, the Watcher, Thor.
#5: She-Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, Mister Fantastic, Thing, Human Torch, Namor, Ares.
#6: She-Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, Human Torch, Namor, Ares
#7: Ms. Marvel, Sentry, Moon Knight, Maria Hill, She-Hulk, Thundra, Valkyrie.
#8: Ms. Marvel, Sentry, Moon Knight, She-Hulk, Thundra, Valkyrie, Tigra, Hellcat, Spider-Woman, Invisible Woman, Black Widow, Storm.
#9: All those people, plus Brother Voodoo.
#10-12: Dr. Strange, Namor, Silver Surfer.
#600: Spider-Man
#13: Ares, Norman Osborn, Ms. Marvel
#14-15: Thundra, Punisher, Deadpool, Crimson Dynamo, Elektra, Domino, Wolverine, X-23, Archangel, Warpath.
I see that future issues will include the Fantastic Four and the X-Men. And so it goes.

One caveat: I'm sure there will be some debate as to what constitutes a "guest star." For now, I'd define it as "a character who normally has no significant historical ties to a title." This would make Doc Samson and Thunderbolt Ross NOT guest-stars, because they first appeared in the Hulk comic and have little relevance outside his title. This would include She-Hulk and Valkyrie. Although a blood relative of the Hulk's, She-Hulk has rarely appeared in the Hulk's title and has tended to carry her own book. Although Valkyrie first appeared in the Hulk's book, they have little in common other than both being Defenders and having met Tom Wolfe.

So, back to the main topic: does Hulk need to knock it the heck off with guest-stars for awhile?

[Rev. Calibos]

I don't think so. The book is designed as the Marvel verson of Morrison/Porter's JLA.

Big, impressive summer blockbuster comic. Big on action, guest stars, sort of a big screen adventure.

The thing is, while JLA lasted for over a decade the Hulk is going to run out of steam within the next year or so (or whenever they finally reveal who Rulk is).

After the reveal there's nothing left for the book really. It's either going to be cancelled or turned into a family style book for the Hulk. 4 or 5 dollars monthly for a rotating cast featuring She-Hulk, Abomination, Doc Samson, etc, something along the same lines as Amazing Spider-Man Family.

They're keeping the book big because the life span is getting shorter and shorter as we get closer to the inevitable reveal.

[Kasper Cole]

What is it with some people and not wanting guest Stars?

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by Kasper Cole

What is it with some people and not wanting guest Stars?

I like guest stars. I don't like a book with nothing BUT guest stars. If they want to sell "Hulk Team-Up" as a monthly, that's different.

[Monty_Cristo]

Deadpool relies too much on guest stars and guest appearances.

[Kasper Cole]

Originally Posted by ResIpsaLoquitur

I like guest stars. I don't like a book with nothing BUT guest stars. If they want to sell "Hulk Team-Up" as a monthly, that's different.

Meh, it's no big deal to me at all, long as the story is enjoyable. I stopped buying the Hulk after issue 3 but it had nothing to do with guest stars in the book.

[XPac]

I don't think the book is intentionally trying to rely on Guest Stars for sales... rather I think that's just how Loeb writes.

I think he wants these big fights with A list characters. I think it's less a sales stunt so much as it is Loeb sort of taking the perspective of a 8 year old kid (and that's not necessarily a bad thing).

If you ask an 8 year old comic reader what he wants in a Thor book, it'll likely be something along the lines of Hulk fighting Thor, or Hulk fighting WOlverine. I think that's sort of what he's going for.

[Beacon]

Maria Hill is a “guest star”? Seriously? As much as I don’t like the Rulk series, somehow I doubt it’s the guess appearances of Maria Hill: Agent of of S.T.U.P.I.D. that’s driving sales.

Plus, in all seriousness, it makes narrative sense that there’d be a lot of guess stars. This isn’t “Wolverine sells books, lets have him show up”. This is “Hulk demolished NYC and Rulk is even more dangerous so naturally EVERYONE and their Aunt May would be trying to stop him”.

I can’t believe I’ve been made to defend Modern-Day Loeb. I need a shower.

[HulkSmash!]

Is the Pope Catholic?

Does a bear crap in the woods?

In the words of the immortal Benjamin J. Grimm, "Is a frog's butt water-tight?"

I would have thought a constant barrage of guest-stars would only take the book so far. It would appear I was wrong.

I do think to a degree it's just the way Loeb writes. Remember his run on SUPERMAN/BATMAN and all the guest-stars. Remember all the villains in the BATMAN minis he worked on, and HUSH. I could go on and on. It seems that's all he knows how to do with story after story these days.

At least Pak's book is doing it sparingly. A sprinkle of all the heroes in #601, a couple pages in #602, Wolverine and Daken in #603...the FF in #605...well, it's better than the barrage!

~G.

[Hrungr]

Originally Posted by XPac

I don't think the book is intentionally trying to rely on Guest Stars for sales... rather I think that's just how Loeb writes.

I think he wants these big fights with A list characters. I think it's less a sales stunt so much as it is Loeb sort of taking the perspective of a 8 year old kid (and that's not necessarily a bad thing).

If you ask an 8 year old comic reader what he wants in a Thor book, it'll likely be something along the lines of Hulk fighting Thor, or Hulk fighting WOlverine. I think that's sort of what he's going for.

Exactly. I'm all for the guest stars myself, it's not as though they bother me. And I imagine there was at least some pent-up demand considering the Hulk was on an alien world for a whole year prior to this and the subsequent sales afterward.

And now it's essentially evolving into the best of both worlds with Pak's more plot heavy and introspective book running alongside the "fun" book. I'm curious how it's all going to shake out after WWHs and this new direction they've been hyping.

[HulkSmash!]

Originally Posted by Hrungr

Exactly. I'm all for the guest stars myself, it's not as though they bother me. And I imagine there was at least some pent-up demand considering the Hulk was on an alien world for a whole year prior to this and the subsequent sales afterward.

I have to wonder, though, if the quality of Loeb's writing would improve substantially if he had to wean himself off the "crutch" of constant guest-stars.

Hey, it's a thought....

~G.

[Castel]

rather I think that's just how Loeb writes.

Without talent or imagination ?

That's Loeb alright.

[Kasper Cole]

Originally Posted by Castel

Without talent or imagination ?

That's Loeb alright.

Hyperbole at it's finest.

[AbdulAziz]

*She-Hulk is from the Hulk Family, so I count her a supporting cast more than a guest-star (and that was when Hulk was in the book and it wasn't a Rulk book)
*Ares, Norman Osborn, Ms. Marvel (villains)
I have to agree on the rest, he sure relies too much on guest stars in his writing (Loeb), just what HulkSmash! said

Originally Posted by Monty_Cristo

Deadpool relies too much on guest stars and guest appearances.

Only in his Team-Up title

[Mechano]

Originally Posted by ResIpsaLoquitur

I like guest stars. I don't like a book with nothing BUT guest stars. If they want to sell "Hulk Team-Up" as a monthly, that's different.

the constant guest stars do get kind of old... i liked issue 13...nice and contained....oh wait, Ares guest starred.