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Becoming An Anthropologist · 11-01-2009, 05:33 AM

Who has fought and lost to who really shouldn't matter.

Which has the feats to back up taking down the other?

**Sharpandpointies** · 11-01-2009, 06:00 AM

What sort of Cutscene feats does Zack have, and does this include Advent Children Cloud?

Youtubes would be nice for Zack feats... :)

Becoming An Anthropologist · 11-01-2009, 11:24 PM

Yes. Advent Children Cloud included. Likewise, Zack has access to the limit breaks and such from Crisis Core that are canonically his along with his off-screen feats of, for example, slicing through layers of futursitic robots.

Zack feats from Last order
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0uHlWT0reE

Zack Opening Cutscene Feats from Crisis Core
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D16uzMf8BOk

Zack Ending Cutscene from Crisis Core (note the huge army is canonically defeated by Zack offscrenn in)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E_nC7Kwn_s ---- begins in that video and then shows him defeated in the other video below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LlCz...eature=related

critical mass · 11-01-2009, 11:52 PM

Gameplay feats shouldn't count for a Final Fantasy game, imho. If that were the case, end of game Cloud would have killed those soldiers with 1 hit each while losing maybe 100hp total.

So going by cutscenes alone, Cloud wins. The crap he was pulling at the end of Advent Children was ridiculous.

fopums · 11-01-2009, 11:52 PM

Zack

due to his accomplishments in CC, his likely superior h2h skills, Cloud has wins over Sephiroth, due to Sephiroths own arrogance or other plot issues, whereas I believe Zack beat Genesis?/Angeal straight up and was a legit 1st class soldier in his own right.

have to watch the last Genesis fight again to make sure.....

also, Zack rules.

edit:well, after quick review, Cloud still has a truckload more feats, but Zacks dead, whatcha gonna do?

**Sharpandpointies** · 11-02-2009, 05:27 AM

Having looked myself, I'd say it's close, but Cloud still takes it based on the cutscenes versus AC. Too strong. Too many options in hand to hand. Speeds close, if not equal.

I have no idea what the limit breaks were like for Zack in CC, and I don't really know how they'd work for comparison, given they're gameplay stuff.

Mcleod · 11-02-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fopums

Zack

due to his accomplishments in CC, his likely superior h2h skills, Cloud has wins over Sephiroth, due to Sephiroths own arrogance or other plot issues, whereas I believe Zack beat Genesis?/Angeal straight up and was a legit 1st class soldier in his own right.

have to watch the last Genesis fight again to make sure.....

also, Zack rules.

edit:well, after quick review, Cloud still has a truckload more feats, but Zacks dead, whatcha gonna do?

Genesis is below Sephiroth though. Genesis is always whining about he wants to be a hero and so on. When they fought briefly in Crisis Core it looked like Sephiroth wasn't even trying and he was still fending him off easily.

If we're including Advent Children then Cloud did beat Sephiroth "straight up."

Ghost · 11-02-2009, 10:32 AM

I know this is ABC logic and all, but didn't Zack get his ass kicked by Sephiroth?

Siriel · 11-02-2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fopums

due to his accomplishments in CC, his likely superior h2h skills, Cloud has wins over Sephiroth, due to Sephiroths own arrogance or other plot issues, whereas I believe Zack beat Genesis?/Angeal straight up and was a legit 1st class soldier in his own right.

Given that Sephiroth was laughing at Genesis's face when they fought, that doesn't actually mean anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcleod

If we're including Advent Children then Cloud did beat Sephiroth "straight up."

Sephiroth was specifically shown (and stated by Word of God) to have been fucking around to hurt Cloud instead of killing him.

That said, Cloud wins, better feats and all.

Alan2099 · 11-02-2009, 01:03 PM

Zack faced down a bunch of Shinra troops and got himself killed.

Cloud stormed the Shinra HQ and made it out alive.

JCAll · 11-02-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost

I know this is ABC logic and all, but didn't Zack get his ass kicked by Sephiroth?

Yes, but Cloud basically did too. Remember how in their holo-deck scene, Sephiroth let Genesis hit him with everything he had, only occasionally fighting back, to no avail because it amused him, Seph was basically doing the same thing in Advent Children with Cloud and got himself Omni-Slashed.

I really want Zack to win with his bullshit 100000 damage pimp slap attack, but Cloud just generally has better feats.

Guy1 · 11-02-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siriel

Sephiroth was specifically shown (and stated by Word of God) to have been fucking around to hurt Cloud instead of killing him.

And Seph still did a number on Cloud.
http://www.animecrazy.net/forums/vil...ght-scene.html

Yun Lao · 11-02-2009, 01:37 PM

As for the AC fight, I also believe that Sephiroth was pretty much using Kadaj like a battery, considering how he didn't seem all that unfazed after being hit by the new Omnislash and just left Kadaj to die.

Also, aside from Genesis and Angeal, Zack was taking on summons by himself.

Becoming An Anthropologist · 11-02-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies

Having looked myself, I'd say it's close, but Cloud still takes it based on the cutscenes versus AC. Too strong. Too many options in hand to hand. Speeds close, if not equal.

I have no idea what the limit breaks were like for Zack in CC, and I don't really know how they'd work for comparison, given they're gameplay stuff.

Speed is probably pretty even, and Cloud does have more options upclose but I don't think it would be Cloud's win majority necessarily. I think Zack has slightly better traiditonal sword fighting skill compared to Cloud and tends to mix in punches and kicks when he fights. In short, I could see Zack knocking Cloud's sword away and then getting the better of him. The video of zack beating Genesis _fight starts at (8:30 mark)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaQDa...eature=related

and that Genesis along with Angeal (whom Zack also beats while he had a boost) level is clearly noted in the fight where the two of them take on sephritoth (here_ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ZaSipHuO4 ). Errr. So Genesis skill level in that fght basically reflect Zack is better and shows Zack is fairly skilled, more so then Cloud I'd say.

Aside from that, Zack has also beaten Ifrit canonically_ which has this feat from being summonned canonicially (55 seconds)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIK4PYe8J98

Another thing is_ Zack also beat the same Bahamut Cloud did by himself, although we have no idea what he did. And, Zack may not have as many close range options, but he has the same limit break cloud showed to raze the children away when going against Kabaji's brothers.
_

fopums · 11-02-2009, 06:16 PM

Sephiroth should have by all means beaten Cloud, he didnt let his ego get involved in his fight with Zack, he just beats him, which if he would have actualy tried, he would have beaten Cloud in AC as well, as according to the creator.

Zack beat two 1st class soldiers, are they Sephiroth? no, but Cloud is not better then Sephiroth. So why does that matter that Zack couldn't beat him?

otherwise still, Zack lacks feats, better h2h skill though IMO

editing for clarity.

11-01-2009, 05:33 AM	#1
Becoming An Anthropologist Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,214	Zack Fair Vs Cloud Strife Who has fought and lost to who really shouldn't matter. Which has the feats to back up taking down the other? __________________ In the name of Justice I bid you good duck!:D

11-01-2009, 06:00 AM	#2
Sharpandpointies Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 33,168	What sort of Cutscene feats does Zack have, and does this include Advent Children Cloud? Youtubes would be nice for Zack feats... :) __________________ DC MA Speed Fisk 1 2 CIS Ghost on Katana Nik's Rumbles Miburo's... ...wit

11-01-2009, 11:24 PM	#3
Becoming An Anthropologist Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,214	Yes. Advent Children Cloud included. Likewise, Zack has access to the limit breaks and such from Crisis Core that are canonically his along with his off-screen feats of, for example, slicing through layers of futursitic robots. Zack feats from Last order http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0uHlWT0reE Zack Opening Cutscene Feats from Crisis Core http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D16uzMf8BOk Zack Ending Cutscene from Crisis Core (note the huge army is canonically defeated by Zack offscrenn in) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E_nC7Kwn_s ---- begins in that video and then shows him defeated in the other video below http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LlCz...eature=related __________________ In the name of Justice I bid you good duck!:D Last edited by Becoming An Anthropologist; 11-01-2009 at 11:31 PM.

11-01-2009, 11:52 PM	#5
fopums punch lemons Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,329	Zack due to his accomplishments in CC, his likely superior h2h skills, Cloud has wins over Sephiroth, due to Sephiroths own arrogance or other plot issues, whereas I believe Zack beat Genesis?/Angeal straight up and was a legit 1st class soldier in his own right. have to watch the last Genesis fight again to make sure..... also, Zack rules. edit:well, after quick review, Cloud still has a truckload more feats, but Zacks dead, whatcha gonna do? __________________ Exacta! Last edited by fopums; 11-02-2009 at 12:04 AM.

11-02-2009, 05:27 AM	#6
Sharpandpointies Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 33,168	Having looked myself, I'd say it's close, but Cloud still takes it based on the cutscenes versus AC. Too strong. Too many options in hand to hand. Speeds close, if not equal. I have no idea what the limit breaks were like for Zack in CC, and I don't really know how they'd work for comparison, given they're gameplay stuff. __________________ DC MA Speed Fisk 1 2 CIS Ghost on Katana Nik's Rumbles Miburo's... ...wit

11-01-2009, 11:52 PM	#4
critical mass YOU HA SHOCK Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 836	Gameplay feats shouldn't count for a Final Fantasy game, imho. If that were the case, end of game Cloud would have killed those soldiers with 1 hit each while losing maybe 100hp total. So going by cutscenes alone, Cloud wins. The crap he was pulling at the end of Advent Children was ridiculous.

11-02-2009, 10:32 AM	#8
Ghost The only man in town. Join Date: May 2004 Location: Land of Lagom Posts: 27,964	I know this is ABC logic and all, but didn't Zack get his ass kicked by Sephiroth? __________________ Writes on occasion: Amara The Queen and the Cauldron Won the Internet: 04.23.06, 07-15-2007 Owner of Beach Planet. Baby seals won me an Awesome Award. Genma Saotome won me an Awesome Award. A 300 parody won me an Awesome Award.

11-02-2009, 01:03 PM	#10
Alan2099 Is Dead Serious Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,811	Zack faced down a bunch of Shinra troops and got himself killed. Cloud stormed the Shinra HQ and made it out alive. __________________ Your ad here

11-02-2009, 01:37 PM	#13
Yun Lao i blow u kis Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In a Cardboard Box Posts: 11,876	As for the AC fight, I also believe that Sephiroth was pretty much using Kadaj like a battery, considering how he didn't seem all that unfazed after being hit by the new Omnislash and just left Kadaj to die. Also, aside from Genesis and Angeal, Zack was taking on summons by himself. __________________ My Current Feats SHR2 Drake Vargas Profile

11-02-2009, 06:16 PM	#15
fopums punch lemons Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,329	Sephiroth should have by all means beaten Cloud, he didnt let his ego get involved in his fight with Zack, he just beats him, which if he would have actualy tried, he would have beaten Cloud in AC as well, as according to the creator. Zack beat two 1st class soldiers, are they Sephiroth? no, but Cloud is not better then Sephiroth. So why does that matter that Zack couldn't beat him? otherwise still, Zack lacks feats, better h2h skill though IMO editing for clarity. __________________ Exacta! Last edited by fopums; 11-02-2009 at 06:22 PM.

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