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Berkey · 10-27-2009, 07:07 PM

So I was searching the old threads here and found a bunch of information on Cosmic characters in the DC verse, but which characters compare to their Marvel counterparts. For instance:

The presence= One Above All

What other Dc cosmic would equal Marvel cosmics such as the Cosmic Defenders?

http://www.comicvine.com/cosmic-defenders/65-55968/ (notably the members on the side as well)

I was always curious as to if the DC cosmic side were to make up a team like such who would be on the team. Any thoughts?

Forth World · 10-27-2009, 07:39 PM

Offhand, you've got the Guardians of the Universe, the Lords of Order and the Lords of Chaos, the New Gods, Wonder Woman's Olympian Gods, the Monitor and Anti-Monitor...

DC has a lot of different overarching cosmic narratives that connect with each other tangentially or not at all.

Right now the Green Lantern/Guardians of the Universe mythos is definitely the dominant one. But that will probably change over the next big crossover or two.

AllisterH · 10-27-2009, 07:48 PM

DC's cosmic landscape is just like the Earth-based DCU. A conglomeration of different mythos that were never intended originally to work together.

Marvel's cosmic mythos basically sprang out of one team originally (Kirby and Lee) who were then followed up by Starlin who then begat DnA (the current marvel architects)

K-DoG7p7 · 10-27-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllisterH

DC's cosmic landscape is just like the Earth-based DCU. A conglomeration of different mythos that were never intended originally to work together.

you say that like its a bad think..

Diversety in the universe is bad!

Slaughter · 10-27-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

The presence= One Above All
The Spectre = Death( in essence)

The second one is wrong.
The Spectre is basically the Wrath of God, the Spirit of Vengeance, God's Hitman. He's a very powerful being that usually acts bonded with the soul of a dead mortal. He dispatches vengeance in cruel, ironic ways to people that comited horrible deeds that need avenging. He's not all-powerful, though. He wasn't even the FIRST Spirit of Vengeance, that was Eclipso, who eventually went crazy and evil.

Desaad · 10-27-2009, 08:56 PM

Yeah, Spectre = Death is astoundingly wrong.

Mistress Death (Marvel) = Death (Endless), or arguably Nekron or the Black Racer.

Eternity was recently likened to Kismet in JLA/Avengers, which isn't very accurate.

Where as Marvel has a Lord Chaos and a Master Order, DC has the Lords of Chaos and Order. In-Betweener would be the equivalent of Dr. Fate, if not in power than in position.

CYOTI · 10-27-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkey

The presence= One Above All
The Spectre = Death( in essence)

Comparing Spectre to Death is like comparing Superman and Green Goblin, it has absolutely no basis in fact.

jgiannantoni05 · 10-27-2009, 09:19 PM

DC:

The Presence
Nekron (Johns said he is "darkness", then boldly said "existence")
New Gods (The Source I think may be The Presence, or some expression of it, unclear)
Lucifer/Michael (not sure if part of main DCU really)
The Spectre

Comicvine did a ranking on this topic (unoffic & not sure I agree with it all):
http://www.comicvine.com/dc-power-rankings/12-42222/

Very confusing and uncertain area of DC canon.

Berkey · 10-27-2009, 09:38 PM

Yeah my bad on the comparison of Death and Spectre, I was just spit balling an idea, but you're all right, different ends of the power scale there. I took a look on the Cosmic entities list on wikipedia and have just become more confused ha ha. I guess I've just been so used to Marvel Cosmic that it's a little trickier to get a grasp on DC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_...es_(DC_Comics)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_in_DC_Comics

FanboyStranger · 10-27-2009, 10:12 PM

Back in the Marvel vs. DC mini, the Spectre and the Living Tribunal were equated.

Berkey · 10-27-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FanboyStranger

Back in the Marvel vs. DC mini, the Spectre and the Living Tribunal were equated.

Funny you mention that, because until recently getting more more into DC (rather than just the few titles I've always read) I used to make the same comparison because of that miniseries.

Desaad · 10-27-2009, 11:11 PM

Right, and that is somewhat fair in that they both represent "justice" the highest power in their respective universes, but their levels of power and authority are vastly different (The LT is much more powerful, representing the pinnacle of power in the MU).

I can certainly understand your confusion -- the Marvel cosmic heirarchy is much more clearly defined than DC version. Obviously certain things are open for debate, but the Living Tribunal -> IG user --> Eternity/Infinity/Death/Oblivion, etc etc have been pretty concretely established.

Not so with the DC universe, and it's not a matter of conflicting stories or mythologies so much as it is a deliberate attempt on the part of almost every creator to make such things...well, more like myth. Less defined. Morpheus is one of the most powerful beings in the universe, and yet...a mortal playing with magic manages to trap him for 70 years, somehow. I can't see Eternity every suffering THAT fate. :)

dupersuper · 10-28-2009, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desaad

Yeah, Spectre = Death is astoundingly wrong.

Mistress Death (Marvel) = Death (Endless), or arguably Nekron or the Black Racer.

Eternity was recently likened to Kismet in JLA/Avengers, which isn't very accurate.

Where as Marvel has a Lord Chaos and a Master Order, DC has the Lords of Chaos and Order. In-Betweener would be the equivalent of Dr. Fate, if not in power than in position.

Agreed. Spectre was hanging out with The Living Tribunal in DC vs. Marvel...

So so far you have...
Presence
Angels
Demons
Greco Roman gods
Lords of Order and Chaos
Guardians
Endless
other historic pantheons
Atlantean wizards
New Gods
Nekron
Spectre
Dr Fate
Phantom Stranger
The Source
Anti-Life
Kismet (who's probably more In-Betweener than Eternity)

plus...
the 2 brothers from DC Vs. Marvel
Dominous
Imperiex
star and planet avatars (as seen in Endless Nights and Trinity)
elementals (like Swamp Thing)
extra terestrial gods and demons (Rao, Onimar Sin, etc.)
Synaar
Lady Styx
Controllers
Zammarons
Macrolatts (sp?); energy beings from The Weirds dimension
Suneaters/Starbreaker
Mr. Nebula (tee-hee)
Superman Prime in the 853rd century

Desaad · 10-28-2009, 01:20 AM

The Brothers were retconned out in an issue of X Men Unlimited that got the editorial nod from DC. Basically they were a creation of the Living tribunal and the Spectre, for some undisclosed reason. He thanks his 'spectral ally' (the LT does) and the end has an editors note thanking a DC editor.

As to others, in the Spectre family you've got "The Word", his older brother so to speak. You've got the Great Evil Beast from Swamp Thing, 5D Imps, the creatures from the Hitch/Waid Heaven's Ladder story,Phantom Stranger, The Radiant (I'm thinking the one from Revelations), The Ecruos, the Old Gods/Dregs, Clockwerx, the Promethean Giants, The Seven Unknown Men, all the various hell lords and hell being (Neron, Blaze and Satannus, Shaitan, Beelzebub, etc) and a whole host of various other dimensional and mystical beings, too many in name and number to mention, but who are almost assuredly more powerful than creatures like the Macrolotts (the emtional entities alone, for instance...heck I'd put the martians or kryptonians above those guys).

dupersuper · 10-28-2009, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desaad

The Brothers were retconned out in an issue of X Men Unlimited that got the editorial nod from DC. Basically they were a creation of the Living tribunal and the Spectre, for some undisclosed reason. He thanks his 'spectral ally' (the LT does) and the end has an editors note thanking a DC editor.

As to others, in the Spectre family you've got "The Word", his older brother so to speak. You've got the Great Evil Beast from Swamp Thing, 5D Imps, the creatures from the Hitch/Waid Heaven's Ladder story,Phantom Stranger, The Radiant (I'm thinking the one from Revelations), The Ecruos, the Old Gods/Dregs, Clockwerx, the Promethean Giants, The Seven Unknown Men, all the various hell lords and hell being (Neron, Blaze and Satannus, Shaitan, Beelzebub, etc) and a whole host of various other dimensional and mystical beings, too many in name and number to mention, but who are almost assuredly more powerful than creatures like the Macrolotts (the emtional entities alone, for instance...heck I'd put the martians or kryptonians above those guys).

Know what issue?

10-27-2009, 07:07 PM	#1
Berkey Heavy Metal Maniac Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Autobot City Posts: 667	Marvel to Dc Cosmic comparison So I was searching the old threads here and found a bunch of information on Cosmic characters in the DC verse, but which characters compare to their Marvel counterparts. For instance: The presence= One Above All What other Dc cosmic would equal Marvel cosmics such as the Cosmic Defenders? http://www.comicvine.com/cosmic-defenders/65-55968/ (notably the members on the side as well) I was always curious as to if the DC cosmic side were to make up a team like such who would be on the team. Any thoughts? Last edited by Berkey; 10-27-2009 at 09:36 PM.

10-27-2009, 07:39 PM	#2
Forth World Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 190	Offhand, you've got the Guardians of the Universe, the Lords of Order and the Lords of Chaos, the New Gods, Wonder Woman's Olympian Gods, the Monitor and Anti-Monitor... DC has a lot of different overarching cosmic narratives that connect with each other tangentially or not at all. Right now the Green Lantern/Guardians of the Universe mythos is definitely the dominant one. But that will probably change over the next big crossover or two. __________________ Several days later: "Yes...she died with her secret, leaving only you, Gabby, as proof of her discovery! From now on it shall be you and me working together against crime! You're a living memorial to a great woman!" ...And with a talking monkey, Midnight brings a new weapon into action against the forces of evil. -- Best-ever ending to a comic book story, Smash Comics #21, Apr. 1941 Last edited by Forth World; 10-27-2009 at 07:57 PM.

10-27-2009, 09:19 PM	#8
jgiannantoni05 Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 847	DC: The Presence Nekron (Johns said he is "darkness", then boldly said "existence") New Gods (The Source I think may be The Presence, or some expression of it, unclear) Lucifer/Michael (not sure if part of main DCU really) The Spectre Comicvine did a ranking on this topic (unoffic & not sure I agree with it all): http://www.comicvine.com/dc-power-rankings/12-42222/ Very confusing and uncertain area of DC canon. __________________ Lex Luthor: Think about it, Clark. My intellect, your powers. Together we could rule this world. We'll walk as gods among men. Clark Kent: You're not a god. I'm not even sure you're human. Lex Luthor: Are you? Lex Luthor: I want you to remember this day, Clark. I want you to remember that despite all your amazing powers, there was one man that beat you. Maybe this was always our destiny. How sad. Last edited by jgiannantoni05; 10-27-2009 at 09:24 PM.

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10-27-2009, 07:48 PM	#3
AllisterH Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 4,350	DC's cosmic landscape is just like the Earth-based DCU. A conglomeration of different mythos that were never intended originally to work together. Marvel's cosmic mythos basically sprang out of one team originally (Kirby and Lee) who were then followed up by Starlin who then begat DnA (the current marvel architects)

10-27-2009, 08:56 PM	#6
Desaad Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,128	Yeah, Spectre = Death is astoundingly wrong. Mistress Death (Marvel) = Death (Endless), or arguably Nekron or the Black Racer. Eternity was recently likened to Kismet in JLA/Avengers, which isn't very accurate. Where as Marvel has a Lord Chaos and a Master Order, DC has the Lords of Chaos and Order. In-Betweener would be the equivalent of Dr. Fate, if not in power than in position.

10-27-2009, 09:38 PM	#9
Berkey Heavy Metal Maniac Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Autobot City Posts: 667	Yeah my bad on the comparison of Death and Spectre, I was just spit balling an idea, but you're all right, different ends of the power scale there. I took a look on the Cosmic entities list on wikipedia and have just become more confused ha ha. I guess I've just been so used to Marvel Cosmic that it's a little trickier to get a grasp on DC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_...es_(DC_Comics) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_in_DC_Comics

10-27-2009, 10:12 PM	#10
FanboyStranger Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,682	Back in the Marvel vs. DC mini, the Spectre and the Living Tribunal were equated.

10-27-2009, 11:11 PM	#12
Desaad Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,128	Right, and that is somewhat fair in that they both represent "justice" the highest power in their respective universes, but their levels of power and authority are vastly different (The LT is much more powerful, representing the pinnacle of power in the MU). I can certainly understand your confusion -- the Marvel cosmic heirarchy is much more clearly defined than DC version. Obviously certain things are open for debate, but the Living Tribunal -> IG user --> Eternity/Infinity/Death/Oblivion, etc etc have been pretty concretely established. Not so with the DC universe, and it's not a matter of conflicting stories or mythologies so much as it is a deliberate attempt on the part of almost every creator to make such things...well, more like myth. Less defined. Morpheus is one of the most powerful beings in the universe, and yet...a mortal playing with magic manages to trap him for 70 years, somehow. I can't see Eternity every suffering THAT fate. :)

10-28-2009, 01:20 AM	#14
Desaad Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,128	The Brothers were retconned out in an issue of X Men Unlimited that got the editorial nod from DC. Basically they were a creation of the Living tribunal and the Spectre, for some undisclosed reason. He thanks his 'spectral ally' (the LT does) and the end has an editors note thanking a DC editor. As to others, in the Spectre family you've got "The Word", his older brother so to speak. You've got the Great Evil Beast from Swamp Thing, 5D Imps, the creatures from the Hitch/Waid Heaven's Ladder story,Phantom Stranger, The Radiant (I'm thinking the one from Revelations), The Ecruos, the Old Gods/Dregs, Clockwerx, the Promethean Giants, The Seven Unknown Men, all the various hell lords and hell being (Neron, Blaze and Satannus, Shaitan, Beelzebub, etc) and a whole host of various other dimensional and mystical beings, too many in name and number to mention, but who are almost assuredly more powerful than creatures like the Macrolotts (the emtional entities alone, for instance...heck I'd put the martians or kryptonians above those guys).