Joe Quesada's Failure as Editor-In-Chief

[keilthetarheel]

First let me say that I do not intend this thread to be a Joe Q. bashing opportunity. I hope to engage a more specific topic, which I will try to summarize below:

Quesada was a great editor of the Marvel Knights line. In fact, as far as I know, he pretty much built the Marvel Knights line – and he was certainly responsible for bringing in tons of really great indy names to Marvel (Ennis, Millar, Grant Morrison, Peter Milligan and many, many more). However, once promoted to editor-in-chief of Marvel, Quesada reveled almost immediately his weakness at holding such a position.

Again let me try to focus the topic of this thread. I think there has been a clear dismantling of the Marvel universe and its characters in the past decade or more, and it can be traced almost exactly to when Quesada took over. First let me say that I don’t think all the blame falls on Quesada – but as editor-in-chief, the final word stops with him. Second let me say that the defense that he has “breathed new life” into the Marvel U – to me – is not a blanket rebuttal of my point. New life does not mean it is good – it just means that it is new.

Here are just some of the things that have happened under Quesada’s tenure. Again, the ed-in-chief has to take some of the brunt of the blame for letting all of these things fly.


Every big Marvel hero reveals his identity – Iron Man, Cap, Daredevil, Spider-Man
Hulk is a killer and has to be sent off planet by the heroes – Hulk was never a killer and this has been carefully established by writers of his comics for hundreds and hundreds of previous issues
Gwen Stacey had sex with – and got pregnant by – Norman Osborne
Series like Daredevil: The Target and The Twelve begin and are never completed
Heroes fight and hate other heroes (Civil War, World War Hulk) – this is a malignant mischaracterization of most of these characters – a topic I will touch on again below
Entire storylines have to be magically undone – Return of the Monster, One More Day
Spidey joins a team (wait, isn’t he the ultimate loner/outcast??)
They get the Sentry right in the first series – then completely wreck the character in the second series and in New Avengers
Dr Strange’s early days are finally revealed. It turns out he was a rich, playboy, daredevil (wait, wasn’t that Tony Stark who was all those things??)


I have 2 theories that might explain some of this. One, Joe Q. is really a buddy to the artists and writers who work for him. This is great in keeping all of your creative talent happy. But at some point the editor-in-chief has to say to his writer when he comes to him with a story about Gwen Stacey being a slut – no that story sucks, come back with something else.

Two, Quesada brought over indy guys like Bendis and Warren Ellis, and others. These guys do not necessarily know how to work with established characters. They are brilliant and painting on a fresh canvas (Powers, Planetary, Authority, so on). They thrive when they can take a character and do anything under the sun to them. But when they try to write Captain America or Iron Man, they miss the heart of the character. So you have a Cap or an Iron Man who doesn’t really act or talk like the real Cap or Iron Man. It is the difference between somebody like Frank Millar taking on Batman in the Dark Knight Returns and really nailing the heart of the character, or Garth Ennis taking on Punisher and just nailing the character like no one has done before – and, on the other hand, Bendis taking on Cap and making him lead from the rear (first couple issues of New Avengers). These guys can do wonders with characters that they created, but they’ve gotten hold of the Marvel U and made it into something nearly unrecognizable.

I’m not coming from the angle of a comic book purist who wants his characters to stay the same as they were in the 70’s or 80’s. I’m coming from the angle of a true fan who has had to put down series after series of Marvel books after getting tired of saying “That character wouldn’t say that. That character wouldn’t do that”. Mainstream comics are about character. People read the Hulk or Spider-Man because they identify with the character. You wouldn’t take Han Solo and make him a pretty boy who doesn’t like to get his hands dirty. You wouldn’t take Tarzan and make him eat tea and crumpets.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

Now that you've cried up a river, I'm sure Joe Q will sell you a bridge over in Brooklyn for you to get over it.

[DetectiveDupin]

While I agree with some of your post, he has certainly not failed by business standards. Marvel has been doing very well, sales-wise, and is besting DC.

I do think that too much has happened to destroy certain character's, well character.

[fin5]

Bad First Post
I desagree Joe is not a faillure for the past Decade we had Amazing stores
I think you are wrong

[whiteshark]

Joe Quesada is a great editor for Marvel comics.

He saved Marvel from bankruptcy years ago,which many peoplle don`t remember and since then his work as Marvel Editor is very good.

You are mentioning stories that you didnt liked,but others people surelly liked.
Which Joe Quesada did not even wrote.

The comics have been mostly good and entertaining so as far as i am concerned Joe Quesada is doing a awesome job as Marvel editor.

What`s up with all these mean spirited threads is my question actually.

[Majinoaw]

No. I think there are only two points I agree with you on, and that's limited series' that are dropped. I can only hold fault with Quesada on that, and just barely.

No there's one point. If you're unhappy with Marvel don't read it. Joe Q has shaken it up a bit an this ain't your granddaddy's marvel. So before this thread is closed like it should be - just lay off man. really.

[CyberHubbs]

I am always surprised by the 'Hulk is not a killer!' argument. He's a raging, out-of-control monster that...doesn't kill.

[keilthetarheel]

Ha – was hoping for some comments that would actually further the discussion. But I’m not really crying – there are still some great things happening at Marvel. Punisher Max, Ghost Rider, Kick-Ass

[keilthetarheel]

Marvel has always outsold DC. But I’m not going to get off-topic. Is Brittany Spears the greatest singer on earth because she sells more CD’s? If you think Marvel has put out great stuff – name them and say why they are great. But more importantly, if Quesada has not done the things that I said, then explain how.

[Majinoaw]

Originally Posted by keilthetarheel

Ha – was hoping for some comments that would actually further the discussion. But I’m not really crying – there are still some great things happening at Marvel. Punisher Max, Ghost Rider, Kick-Ass

The tone of Marvel has changed since Quesada took hold. It's more mature and a lot of the camp that existed in books prior to his reign was taken out. His Hulk is a killer (which I have no problem with) his Cap is a darker more conflicted hero.

But I have no problem with most of his tenure. My only main issues are OMD; and the nonsop mega events that have to change everything. They're worse than foil embossed covers!!!!!! Whoever invented those things should be beaten to death.

[Superbeast]

Really it can be broke down into two parts:

He made Marvel profitable again.

He has given some creators carte blanche creative control they should not have had leading to bad stories and limited other creators by forcing them to work in a constrained environment creatively, leading to bad stories. This double standard doesn't make sense given Jeff Loeb screwed up the Ultimate Universe to the point it's barely functioning but JMS got cut off at the knees on Spider-Man and Thor while delivering good work.

Everything else is pretty much opinion.

[Cloudman]

Completely disagree. Joe Q has done a great job.

[keilthetarheel]

Again, if you disagree – give a reason why

In the meantime – I’ll pose another question. If you slowly dismantle your characters – characters that are the cornerstone of your company – but as long as you make profits while doing it – that is a good thing??

[whiteshark]

Who says Marvel is dismantling the characters?!

The writers are only writing the stories they want to write with the characters.

[CyberHubbs]

Originally Posted by keilthetarheel

Again, if you disagree – give a reason why

In the meantime – I’ll pose another question. If you slowly dismantle your characters – characters that are the cornerstone of your company – but as long as you make profits while doing it – that is a good thing??

Sometimes, yes.