Douglas Wolk on Spider-Man VS Wolverine and other Great Spider-Man stories

[Mister Mets]

In his book Reading Comics: How Graphic Novels Work and What They Mean, comics critic Douglas Wolk made some interesting observations about one of my favorite Spider-Man stories, and the character's appeal.

Originally Posted by Douglas Wolk

Curiously, though, even some great characters' creators sometimes don't understand their symbolic resonance. Take Spider-Man, for instance. Pressed for an explanation of why he's so popular for so long, a lot of cartoonists- including Stan Lee, who cocreated him with Steve Ditko- suggest that it might be because he's sort of cool-looking, or that he's got "real problems" (a well-meaning but overbearing aunt, a bruised public image, perpetual broke-ness), or that there's something strangely abject about his powers and persona. Readers- at least adolescent readers who feel perpetually misunderstood- can relate to him, the argument goes.

But what all good Spider-Man stories have in common, beginning with the eleven-page story that introduced him in the final issue of Amazing Fantasy (previously Amazing Adult Fantasy, "the magazine that respects your intelligence!"), is their exploration of the relationship between power and the obligation to use it correctly. Lee even spells it out in the endlessly quoted final line of that final story, "with great power there must also come- great responsibility. If you've somehow managed to avoid encountering the origin story, its plot is that Peter Parker, a teenager from a poor family who has just got superhuman abilities, has an opportunity to stop a fleeing burglar but figures that it isn't his problem: the burglar goes on to kill his beloved uncle. The central theme of Spider-Man from then on is the friction between what Peter wants to do, and what he believes he's required to do, given what's he's able to do.

Ask longtime readers what their favorite Spider-Man stories are and they'll always say the same ones: "Spider-Man No More," "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" and "The Death of Jean Dewolfe"- the stories that explore the theme best. In the famous sequence in Amazing Spider-Man #33 that I'll discuss in the chapter on Ditko, he's trapped under a giant piece of machinery and convinces himself, painfully, to lift it up, to free himself, and rescue his aunt: there's the power/ responsibility theme right there. The best-loved Spider-Man artists (Ditko, John Romita, John Romita Jr, Todd McFarlane) have their own followings, but even some run-of-the-mill artists have drawn some Spider-Man stories that have succeeded on the strength of their thematic resonances.

One that I particularly love is 1987's Spider-Man VS Wolverine one-shot by Jim Owsley, Mark Bright and Al Williamson. It looks just like another exploitative piece of product (make two characters fight on the cover; watch it sell), but the point of its fight scenes and spy cliches is putting Spider-Man in a situation that's a moral quandary for him and wouldn't be for anyone else: an international intrigue that everyone tells him to stay out of because he's out of his league. He can't - because of the power and responsibility thing- and his doing what his ethical cod obligates him to do at every turn ends up making matters far worse. It's not a particularly graceful or subtle comic book, and it wouldn't have anything like the same impact for someone who hadn't already read a hundred other stories about Spider-Man, but it's an unforgettable superhero story whose force comes from the core idea of its protagonist's history.

Do you guys agree with Mr Wolk? If not, where does he err?

[Jim Thompson]

Originally Posted by Mister Mets

Do you guys agree with Mr Wolk? If not, where does he err?

Yeah, I think he's summed it up well.

[HULKquist]

I have to agree. In essence, I believe he's saying that responsibility is the cornerstone of Spider-Man's characterization, with his youth being the foil (If it has any effect whatsoever.). I believe Wolk has a better take on Spider-Man than Brevoort. Where's Wolk's Manifesto?

[Cody H]

Originally Posted by Mister Mets

Do you guys agree with Mr Wolk? If not, where does he err?

I agree with the symbolic power and responsibility thing as a important theme but he seems to dismiss a number of popular reasons for Spider-Man's popularity (cool costume, teenage relatability, etc.) as if they are less important or somehow not the "true" reason for Spidey's popularity. To me, it seems kind of silly to dismiss the widely reported reasons as less central to the character's overall popularity than symbolism that isn't even necessarily apparent at first glance.

I also tend to think that asking a crapload of people why they like Spider-Man is a better way of determining reasons for his popularity than literary theme analysis.

[Jim Thompson]

Originally Posted by Cody H

I agree with the symbolic power and responsibility thing as a important theme but he seems to dismiss a number of popular reasons for Spider-Man's popularity (cool costume, teenage relatability, etc.) as if they are less important or somehow not the "true" reason for Spidey's popularity. To me, it seems kind of silly to dismiss the widely reported reasons as less central to the character's overall popularity than symbolism that isn't even necessarily apparent at first glance.

I also tend to think that asking a crapload of people why they like Spider-Man is a better way of determining reasons for his popularity than literary theme analysis.

Teen-age relatibility? I think that has been off the table for years now as a primary reason for people to like the character.

[Cody H]

Originally Posted by Jim Thompson

Teen-age relatibility? I think that has been off the table for years now as a primary reason for people to like the character.

Yeah, maybe, but relatability certainly comes up relatively often even if it isn't specifically coming from adolescent fans.

[RDMacQ]

I think that Wolk has a pretty good take on the character here, and explains why the notion of responsibility is important to Spider-Man and his mythos. I do believe that responsibility is a key theme to Spider-Man's mythos and his prevalence over the years. It certainly is a more universal trait that is better at spanning generations than something like having "relatable problems" or "looking cool" since that may change from generation to generation.

[Will.S]

I loved Spider-Man vs Wolverine as well but I've seen people complain that that story put Peter in too naive of a light compared to Wolverine. Which I could understand but I don't know, I think the ending was powerful enough to make that not be that big of a detriment.

[Gordon Smith]

I thought that special was terrible when I read it in 1987, and having reread it in 2008, my opinion hasn't changed much.

[whiteshark]

I read a interview some time ago with Peter David,in which the famous writer said that what makes Spider-Man such a popular character is rather a combination of elements that just one element by itself.
I agree more with this,that saying that Spider-Man is just focused around one thing.

But the youth of the character and the responsibility of the character are the most visible elements around Spider-Man.

[Jim Thompson]

Originally Posted by whiteshark

But the youth of the character and the responsibility of the character are the most visible elements around Spider-Man.

I agree about the responsibility aspect. I think the whole youth thing gets far too much credit in the formula for Spider-Man's overall success.

[Chris S.]

Originally Posted by Jim Thompson

Teen-age relatibility? I think that has been off the table for years now as a primary reason for people to like the character.

I actually took a graphic novel course in college. They tried to claim that the reason that Spider-Man was so popular was because he was a teenager. I thought that was a bit ridiculous for this very reason. When I tried to point it out they just ignored me.

Those guys were kind of idiots. They claimed a book didn't have any retcons then I found one in the very pages we had read and they just ignored me. They were comic book elitists.

[Jim Thompson]

Originally Posted by Chris S.

I actually took a graphic novel course in college. They tried to claim that the reason that Spider-Man was so popular was because he was a teenager. I thought that was a bit ridiculous for this very reason. When I tried to point it out they just ignored me.

Those guys were kind of idiots. They claimed a book didn't have any retcons then I found one in the very pages we had read and they just ignored me. They were comic book elitists.

Lot o' that going 'round.

[flashdisk]

Originally Posted by Douglas Wolk
Curiously, though, even some great characters' creators sometimes don't understand their symbolic resonance. Take Spider-Man, for instance. Pressed for an explanation of why he's so popular for so long, a lot of cartoonists- including Stan Lee, who cocreated him with Steve Ditko- suggest that it might be because he's sort of cool-looking, or that he's got "real problems" (a well-meaning but overbearing aunt, a bruised public image, perpetual broke-ness), or that there's something strangely abject about his powers and persona. Readers- at least adolescent readers who feel perpetually misunderstood- can relate to him, the argument goes.

But what all good Spider-Man stories have in common, beginning with the eleven-page story that introduced him in the final issue of Amazing Fantasy (previously Amazing Adult Fantasy, "the magazine that respects your intelligence!"), is their exploration of the relationship between power and the obligation to use it correctly. Lee even spells it out in the endlessly quoted final line of that final story, "with great power there must also come- great responsibility. If you've somehow managed to avoid encountering the origin story, its plot is that Peter Parker, a teenager from a poor family who has just got superhuman abilities, has an opportunity to stop a fleeing burglar but figures that it isn't his problem: the burglar goes on to kill his beloved uncle. The central theme of Spider-Man from then on is the friction between what Peter wants to do, and what he believes he's required to do, given what's he's able to do.

Ask longtime readers what their favorite Spider-Man stories are and they'll always say the same ones: "Spider-Man No More," "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" and "The Death of Jean Dewolfe"- the stories that explore the theme best. In the famous sequence in Amazing Spider-Man #33 that I'll discuss in the chapter on Ditko, he's trapped under a giant piece of machinery and convinces himself, painfully, to lift it up, to free himself, and rescue his aunt: there's the power/ responsibility theme right there. The best-loved Spider-Man artists (Ditko, John Romita, John Romita Jr, Todd McFarlane) have their own followings, but even some run-of-the-mill artists have drawn some Spider-Man stories that have succeeded on the strength of their thematic resonances.

One that I particularly love is 1987's Spider-Man VS Wolverine one-shot by Jim Owsley, Mark Bright and Al Williamson. It looks just like another exploitative piece of product (make two characters fight on the cover; watch it sell), but the point of its fight scenes and spy cliches is putting Spider-Man in a situation that's a moral quandary for him and wouldn't be for anyone else: an international intrigue that everyone tells him to stay out of because he's out of his league. He can't - because of the power and responsibility thing- and his doing what his ethical cod obligates him to do at every turn ends up making matters far worse. It's not a particularly graceful or subtle comic book, and it wouldn't have anything like the same impact for someone who hadn't already read a hundred other stories about Spider-Man, but it's an unforgettable superhero story whose force comes from the core idea of its protagonist's history.

I agree with him.

[Chris S.]

Originally Posted by Jim Thompson

Lot o' that going 'round.

Yea I realize my comment made me seem like one. They were just jerks. They'd make negative comments about every super hero comic we read except Batman. When I tried to come up with counterpoints they just straight up ignored me. Almost once a class they did that. Even the people sitting around me each class started to notice it. It was one of the worst classes I ever took. I actually turned down an internship because I had wanted to take this class since I heard about it freshman year. I always thought it was something I wanted to teach. I expected to hear argument for why comics were literature; that was what a majority of the courses called "emerging fields" did. This class didn't do anything of the like.