Unintentional Cry for Justice foreshadowing?

[The ?]

I was re-reading the Martian Manhunter: Requiem issue today and am I the only one who noticed that, out of the whole league, Hal and Ollie were the only ones that even came close to discussing retribution for what happened to J'onn? (Ollie discussing blasting off limbs and "tickling major nerve bundles" with an arrow head.) It probably means nothing, but it makes Hal and ollie's decision to break off and go after Libra and co. more reasonable and I thought it was worth mentioning in light of some of the "out of character" critiques I've seen leveled at Cry for Justice.

[Fatguy]

Originally Posted by The ?

I was re-reading the Martian Manhunter: Requiem issue today and am I the only one who noticed that, out of the whole league, Hal and Ollie were the only ones that even came close to discussing retribution for what happened to J'onn? (Ollie discussing blasting off limbs and "tickling major nerve bundles" with an arrow head.) It probably means nothing, but it makes Hal and ollie's decision to break off and go after Libra and co. more reasonable and I thought it was worth mentioning in light of some of the "out of character" critiques I've seen leveled at Cry for Justice.

I could be wrong, as I havent read it, but I think the "Out of character" complaints have been against the dialogue and character interactions, not their motivations.

I mean, I could see Hal and Ollie breaking off from the League to do things THEIR WAY. That definitely seems in-character.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Originally Posted by Fatguy

I could be wrong, as I havent read it, but I think the "Out of character" complaints have been against the dialogue and character interactions, not their motivations.

I mean, I could see Hal and Ollie breaking off from the League to do things THEIR WAY. That definitely seems in-character.

Agreed. Hal really should be the guy looking for fights after Johns' reboot and Ollie always struck me as a little vindictive. But their dialogue...ugh.

[WorstThingUS]

Originally Posted by Fatguy

I could be wrong, as I havent read it, but I think the "Out of character" complaints have been against the dialogue and character interactions, not their motivations.

Exactly. In fact, we've had discussions here about how the heroes of the DCU tend to just let too much go. After the Society destroyed Bludhaven, no one but Wonder Girl was out looking for Deathstroke or the Brotherhood of Evil, not even Nightwing who should have been leading such an action. So it's not what they're doing but the crummy dialogue and near inaction in how they're doing it.

[lunchcountersitin]

Originally Posted by WorstThingUS

Exactly. In fact, we've had discussions here about how the heroes of the DCU tend to just let too much go. After the Society destroyed Bludhaven, no one but Wonder Girl was out looking for Deathstroke or the Brotherhood of Evil, not even Nightwing who should have been leading such an action. So it's not what they're doing but the crummy dialogue and near inaction in how they're doing it.

Which is another way of saying, the editors and writers don't do a good job of tying up the loose threads from things like Bludhaven.

Of course the response from the editors and writers would be, well, the heroes are too busy with the stuff going on in their books, to deal with everything...

But I see your point.

[Mat001]

Actually, around the time "Requiem" came out, "Cry For Justice" had already been unveiled a short while before. So Hal and Ollie's scenes in "Requiem" was intentional on Peter Tomasi's part.

[Psavell2]

The thing that confuses me is the timeline. Hal's behavior in Cry For Justice seems to be a reaction to Final Crisis, but in The Flash: Rebirth he seems to be fine. Since there's a brief shot of Dick Grayson as Batman in Cry for Justice, but in The Flash: Rebirth we see him as Nightwing, it's pretty clear that the events of Flash happened first. Did Hal's joy at Barry's return temporarily outweigh his anger at the death of his other friends, or did something else since then push him over the edge?

[Retro315]

Originally Posted by Psavell2

The thing that confuses me is the timeline. Hal's behavior in Cry For Justice seems to be a reaction to Final Crisis, but in The Flash: Rebirth he seems to be fine. Since there's a brief shot of Dick Grayson as Batman in Cry for Justice, but in The Flash: Rebirth we see him as Nightwing, it's pretty clear that the events of Flash happened first. Did Hal's joy at Barry's return temporarily outweigh his anger at the death of his other friends, or did something else since then push him over the edge?

Flash definitely happens first (we also see Barry in that big JLA "group discussion" in the beginning of Cry For Justice.)

It's not too complicated, really. First things first in the wake of Final Crisis ... Barry is back! And Hal (and everybody else, judging from the hyper-fast response from the JLA (including Superman before he leaves), JSA, Outsiders, Titans and the rest are making sure Barry's all right. He's the first priority. Get him acclimated to modern life, make sure he's good to go, the grim discussions and retribution can happen later.

Then, once things have settled down a little bit, JUSTICE! for Batman and Martian Manhunter. And to some degree Aquaman, too.

Practically every more recent member of the JLA was at the meeting where Hal and Ollie quit, which means it was most likely "the big meeting". Superman probably called that meeting to tell all his JLA buddies he's leaving for New Krypton for a while, and then Hal decided to make his scene then and make it good.

Anyway, between Cry For Justice # 1's intro, and the rest of the series, it seems like a couple months have gone by where Hal and Ollie HAVE in fact been doing a little ass-kicking, but they haven't stumbled across anything "big" yet until they get that tip from Jason Bard. Which works with Dick Grayson's cameo as Batman, since Battle For The Cowl took place a few months after Final Crisis.

[Clockan]

Originally Posted by The ?

I was re-reading the Martian Manhunter: Requiem issue today and am I the only one who noticed that, out of the whole league, Hal and Ollie were the only ones that even came close to discussing retribution for what happened to J'onn? (Ollie discussing blasting off limbs and "tickling major nerve bundles" with an arrow head.) It probably means nothing, but it makes Hal and ollie's decision to break off and go after Libra and co. more reasonable and I thought it was worth mentioning in light of some of the "out of character" critiques I've seen leveled at Cry for Justice.

that was intentionally put in that issue because cry for justice was already in the planning stages at that point. i remember when the issue came it created a lot of buzz on the boards about robinsons justice league (then thought to be an ongoing series)

[Psavell2]

Makes sense. Thanks for untangling all that.

The only other thing that bugs me a little is Barry's total lack of input in Cry For Justice. In the meeting I was actually uncertain whether that was him or Wally, but given the closeness that Hal and Barry show in Rebirth and Blackest Night, you'd think he'd either join Hal and Ollie or strongly(and vocally) object to their course of action.

I remember reading an interview with Greg Rucka where he said that he didn't want other writers using Batwoman until he had her well established, specifically until her origin story had been told. I could see Geoff Johns having a similar policy with Barry. Sure he didn't create him, but he's re-establishing him for the first time in nearly a quarter of a century, so maybe he would prefer to keep Barry to himself as much as possible for the time being.

But I'm still curious about the in story reasoning. I guess Barry didn't agree with Hal's point of view, but knew the folly of trying to talk him out of it.