Most powerful opponent the Shrike could beat?

[mailedbypostman1]

Who's the strongest it can destroy in these scenarios?
1) Just one Shrike
2)Time clones allowed, but no killing the enemy when he was born or any of that.
3) Time clones allowed, can travel back in time too.

[Hitokiri]

What's this guy like besides his create multiple copies throughout time stichk? I mean the second and third Shrikes you've listed could take on the Flash.

[Surtur]

Originally Posted by Hitokiri

What's this guy like besides his create multiple copies throughout time stichk? I mean the second and third Shrikes you've listed could take on the Flash.

Well, it's incredibly fast, which is obvious, when someone was wearing tech that dramatically increased your reaction/movement speed shrike was still too fast for the guy to perceive. It can do a dimension dump as well, and as you mentioned the copies throughout time thing, which given it's speed it could bring about millions of itself in the span of a few seconds. Oh, it can adapt too, if you destroy one an upgraded version appears.

As for the strongest person they could defeat, I'd say perhaps Thanos is the strongest they could beat if we go by Scenario 3. Shrike could travel back in time and kill him before he becomes too powerful. Unless Thanos somehow is immune to that.

There's also the problem that time travel technically would just create an alternate universe, but I'm going to assume for the sake of the third scenario that Shrike could indeed change the past if it wanted to.

If we're talking about the strongest Shrike can beat without having to travel back in time to take them out, then I'd say perhaps the Sentry might be worth mentioning. Thing is I'm not sure if Shrike could get through his durability, can he come back from being dimension dumped? That's a possibility too, but I'd figure Sentry would have a way back.

[Pendaran]

As for the strongest person they could defeat, I'd say perhaps Thanos is the strongest they could beat if we go by Scenario 3. Shrike could travel back in time and kill him before he becomes too powerful. Unless Thanos somehow is immune to that.

No it couldn't, unless you handwave it somehow magically overriding how the underlying metaphysics of the Marvel universe work, and being as that has either required cosmic artifacts or Doctor Doom's intellect, that's a massive handwave.

Thing is I'm not sure if Shrike could get through his durability, can he come back from being dimension dumped?

It can't get through his durability, and he can return from such.

[Surtur]

Originally Posted by Pendaran

No it couldn't, unless you handwave it somehow magically overriding how the underlying metaphysics of the Marvel universe work, and being as that has either required cosmic artifacts or Doctor Doom's intellect, that's a massive handwave.

Oh I know, I just figured perhaps the thread creator might of wanted to handwave it, simply because otherwise noting Shrike could travel to the past would be useless.. But yeah, normally it wouldn't work.

Perhaps Superman or Thor could potentially be the strongest it could beat. Even though saying that feels like I'm selling the Shrike a bit short, but I'm having trouble thinking of someone between Superman and Sentry's power level that it could defeat..

[The Thunderbird]

Phoenix perhaps? I don't know of any feats that allow her to react to Shrike's speed and even if the Shrike cannot penetrate her defenses, it can go back in time and kill her before she became Phoenix.

[WyldCard4]

Originally Posted by Surtur

There's also the problem that time travel technically would just create an alternate universe, but I'm going to assume for the sake of the third scenario that Shrike could indeed change the past if it wanted to.

Why would it create an alternate universe if it doesn't when the Shrike time travels?

[Pendaran]

Originally Posted by WyldCard4

Why would it create an alternate universe if it doesn't when the Shrike time travels?

Because the Shrike would have to travel back in time within the Marvel universe, being that such is where its would be targets exist, and sans cosmic artifacts or Doctor Doom designing the time machine, that's all that happens when you do that there. Why does the Shrike get to completely override the metaphysical structure of the universe it would have to travel back in time within? Because you say so?

[critical mass]

Originally Posted by Pendaran

Because the Shrike would have to travel back in time within the Marvel universe, being that such is where its would be targets exist, and sans cosmic artifacts or Doctor Doom designing the time machine, that's all that happens when you do that there. Why does the Shrike get to completely override the metaphysical structure of the universe it would have to travel back in time within? Because you say so?

Well, how do the Shrike's time travel powers work? If he travels back to the past and kills someone, does the present version get killed? If that is how his powers work, I don't see the reason why the mechanics of his power be changed to fit the rules of Marvel continuity. Not knowing anything about the Shrike except for what I read on rumbles, if a particular character is vulnerable in its history, Shrike should be able to go back in time and kill him/her. It's a shady way to win, but a victory is a victory.

With all respect, your argument sounds like how some explain that the Flash would have no powers in the Marvel U because the Speedforce doesn't exist in it. In Rumbles, it shouldn't matter.

[Surtur]

Well the trouble is, where are these scenario's supposed to take place? I was assuming that it would take place in whichever universe the Shrike's opponent is from. Which if I'm right, the Shrike technically wouldn't be able to change the past of the MU without creating an alternate timeline.

I assume it's taking place in the various universes of it's opponents since, if allowed to time travel, but the fight takes place in the arena, such an option would be pointless as what is Shrike going to do with that? As no opponents he faces will have ever had a past in the arena. So after he goes back in time a few seconds once the fight begins he'll just find either an empty arena..or we might even say he just encounters past fights in the arena.

[Pendaran]

Originally Posted by critical mass

Well, how do the Shrike's time travel powers work? If he travels back to the past and kills someone, does the present version get killed? If that is how his powers work, I don't see the reason why the mechanics of his power be changed to fit the rules of Marvel continuity. Not knowing anything about the Shrike except for what I read on rumbles, if a particular character is vulnerable in its history, Shrike should be able to go back in time and kill him/her. It's a shady way to win, but a victory is a victory.

With all respect, your argument sounds like how some explain that the Flash would have no powers in the Marvel U because the Speedforce doesn't exist in it. In Rumbles, it shouldn't matter.

There's a glaring difference between "the Flash keeps his own powers" and "the Shrike gains the extra abilities of cosmic artifacts or Doctor Doom's intellect, because I say so".

The only place that established the Flash's speed force not working is a crossover, which we don't count here. The only place that establishes that the Shrike can override the underlying metaphysical structure of the Marvel universe is the group of people who like to insist "Shrike wins!" saying he can. I'd ask the same exact thing if someone floated a "he goes back in time and kills them when they are a baby" strategy for the Flash if he was facing someone from the MU. Can he go back in time? Sure, it's well within his repeatedly demonstrated powers. Why doesn't he just create an alternate timeline like almost everyone else for doing so when he has to travel back into the past of the Marvel Universe to do it?

[Sharpandpointies]

It's a valid point. For the Shrike to go back in time and kill someone from the Marvel Universe, he has to do it in the Marvel Universe (presumably travelling there from Khazan, as Khazan is theoretically a nexus of realities where the fights happen etc etc etc).

The Marvel Universe doesn't allow for that sort of thing without very specific circumstances.

[Far From Realmer]

That brings up an interesting question, how powerful would someone not from marvel have to be to be able to override the marvel universe time rules?

[mailedbypostman1]

I thought we had this argument a while back. For the record, I don't believe the Shrike could do it against Marvel characters.

[mailedbypostman1]

Originally Posted by Far From Realmer

That brings up an interesting question, how powerful would someone not from marvel have to be to be able to override the marvel universe time rules?

*thinks back to that one thread*


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