How much of "Batman: Reborn" is going to last?

[shaxper]

Obviously the big question is whether or not Dick will remain as Batman, but also:

-Will Tim remain as Red Robin?
-Will Damian remain as Robin?
-Will Batwoman remain as the primary feature in Detective Comics?
-How many of the new titles will survive longer than a year?


My own personal feelings on the matter:

-Dick's survival as Batman depends entirely upon reader response. I think the fans are mostly willing to accept him, but there's the problem with Bruce still being alive in the past. I don't think the fans are going to just let that go, nor will they be satisfied with Bruce doing anything other than being the modern day Batman. So, I guess I'm really saying that Dick would cut it as Batman if it weren't for the fact that Bruce is still out there. Since he is, Dick's days in the cowl are numbered.

-Tim taking on a new identity is awesome, but this one is a little too Jason Todd. Red Robin is going to need to find a new direction (and possibly a better name) in order to work, but it can.

-Damian is everything that 50% of fans hated about Jason Todd enough to want to kill him. However, as long as Grant is writing even one Batman title, Damian will remain. After that, I think he can easily be discarded unless some other writer is able to do something compelling and less annoying with the character.

-I don't think Batwoman has any staying power at all. The art is great, but the character isn't anything special. If she didn't have "Bat" in her name, she never would have made it as the star of DC's longest running and most historically important title. I give her a year, after which she'll get a short and easily-forgotten series of her own, only to finally make it onto the pages of The Outsiders or some other team title where she can finally earn her place.

-Streets of Gotham and Gotham City Sirens don't have a chance once Dini stops writing them. The first is an unnecessary title and the second features characters that, historically speaking, no one else has been able to keep interesting as the stars of their own titles. Red Robin can make it, though, but I think the title will need to change.

[Captain Jim]

Originally Posted by shaxper

-Streets of Gotham and Gotham City Sirens don't have a chance once Dini stops writing them. The first is an unnecessary title and the second features characters that, historically speaking, no one else has been able to keep interesting as the stars of their own titles.

What is an "unnecessary" title? Is any title featuring Batman other than Batman or Detective unnecessary? Were Gotham Knights and Shadow of the Bat unnecessary titles?

[Protoman]

I think Red Robin is great, as well as most other things in the Batman unvierse right now

[shaxper]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

What is an "unnecessary" title? Is any title featuring Batman other than Batman or Detective unnecessary? Were Gotham Knights and Shadow of the Bat unnecessary titles?

Yes. That's why they're no longer in print.

Time and again, we've seen companies give a variety of titles to a legendary character (Batman, Superman, Spiderman), and each time, two seems to be the magic number: Batman/Detective, Superman/Action, Amazing Spiderman/Web of Spiderman. All those other titles fade out after only a few years because readers don't demand more than two ongoing titles for a character, especially when he or she is likely to make appearances in other titles anyway.

[Redrumbin]

I have this wweeeeiiiiirrrdddd feeling that they're going to kill Tim and make Dick take the Red Robin mantle just because a couple of years ago Alex Ross said so.

[the Hornet]

Originally Posted by Redrumbin

I have this wweeeeiiiiirrrdddd feeling that they're going to kill Tim and make Dick take the Red Robin mantle just because a couple of years ago Alex Ross said so.

I had a small feeling this might happen too. I hope not. Tim is my second fav Bat character after Dick and I want them both around. I actually like the status quo now. IE Bruce stays gone.

[Doug Seid]

Originally Posted by Redrumbin

I have this wweeeeiiiiirrrdddd feeling that they're going to kill Tim and make Dick take the Red Robin mantle just because a couple of years ago Alex Ross said so.

Yeah, that thought has crossed my mind too. Good thing is, if he dies, he'll be back in exactly 12 months. :rolleyes:

[Melfice]

Damn I hope not. I hate they comics and death mean nothing other than to increase sales of a book. If they kill Tim off, keep him dead...but I rather they don't myself. There is no need to kill the char off at all.

[mofo]

I like that Tim has gone off on his own... but not as Red Robin (something about the costume and name just sounds so.....OFF). Plus, the series seems kinda redundant (because we know it will be Grant Morrison who will be bringing Bruce back). But killing Tim would be 23 steps backwards

Batwoman is sweet and hope she stays on Detective for a long time (or at least until Rucka leaves). If she joins Tomasi's Outsiders (as another poster mentioned) that would be interesting

Streets of Gotham & Gotham City Sirens are, unfortunately, very bad. Hard to believe this is Dini writing. Get rid of the 2 series, put him on Batman. While Winick's writing isn't that bad, Dini is better. And I'm still extremely skeptical over Tony Daniel.

[RyleKayner]

I don't see Tim being killed - the current DC head honchos have bolloxed up enough with Conner and Bart to know that fans don't want them to off Tim.

Batwoman can go the way of the dodo as soon as Ruka and JH Williams leave as far as I care. And if she would be so kind as to take Jason with her when she goes, I'll be ever so grateful and erect a shrine for her in the altar of my heart.

Sirens, I hope gets turned into BOP part II if Dini ever leaves and Gail and the current artist take the title to stellar heights.

Bruce, as long as Grant has a plan and a free hand, is in good hands. As indeed, it the rest of the Bat-franchise as long as Grant, Paul and Greg stich around.

[Theophilus]

Originally Posted by shaxper

Yes. That's why they're no longer in print.

Time and again, we've seen companies give a variety of titles to a legendary character (Batman, Superman, Spiderman), and each time, two seems to be the magic number: Batman/Detective, Superman/Action, Amazing Spiderman/Web of Spiderman. All those other titles fade out after only a few years because readers don't demand more than two ongoing titles for a character, especially when he or she is likely to make appearances in other titles anyway.

One thing that really distinguishes the Bat-verse from other franchises is the ability of the extended Bat-family to carry their own titles.

So there's a distinction to be made between the Superman/Action dichotomy and, say, Azrael or Red Robin. You could only make a valid comparison if DC were publishing a Lois Lane or Jimmy Olsen title right now.

To my mind, you can't tell that many interesting stories that focus on other characters' supporting casts on a consistent basis. You could tell the occassional Flash Thompson story that knocks it out of the park (ASM did not so long ago), but you couldn't sell a title on the strength of Flash Thompson alone.

But with Batman you have a seemingly inexhaustible supply of characters who can carry a title with or without Batman actually present. There seemingly isn't any shortage of stories you can tell with Jim Gordon, or Tim Drake, or Dick Grayson or even the Gotham City Police Department as the focus. I'm not sure there's any comparable franchise in the history of comics--even when DC was able to publish titles focusing on Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane!

I also think there's a seemingly inexhaustible range of Batman stories to tell. Batman can sustain a noir tone, a detective story, a superhero adventure, a gothic horror atmosphere--I couldn't list all the various approaches and infinite combinations.

I'm not sure I buy into a universal two-title rule, but that said, Batman is the one character who will always defy whatever parameters the market sets.

[Mia]

Originally Posted by shaxper

-Dick's survival as Batman depends entirely upon reader response. I think the fans are mostly willing to accept him, but there's the problem with Bruce still being alive in the past. I don't think the fans are going to just let that go, nor will they be satisfied with Bruce doing anything other than being the modern day Batman. So, I guess I'm really saying that Dick would cut it as Batman if it weren't for the fact that Bruce is still out there. Since he is, Dick's days in the cowl are numbered.

I love Dick Grayson. But I would prefer that he be Nightwing. I honestly understand why people actually prefer him to Bruce Wayne. Bruce is too 'perfect' whereas Dick isn't. But as far as I am concerned there wil only be one Batman and that is Bruce Wayne.

Originally Posted by shaxper

-Tim taking on a new identity is awesome, but this one is a little too Jason Todd. Red Robin is going to need to find a new direction (and possibly a better name) in order to work, but it can.

-Damian is everything that 50% of fans hated about Jason Todd enough to want to kill him. However, as long as Grant is writing even one Batman title, Damian will remain. After that, I think he can easily be discarded unless some other writer is able to do something compelling and less annoying with the character.

Ideally what I would like to see happen is when Bruce returns, have Damien go home to mommy and Tim resume being Robin.

On the other hand, Tim is pushing adulthood and it would be nice to see him strike out on his own. So I would love to see him be Red Robin permanently. Or let Damian be Robin, however only be a guest star in the books.

Originally Posted by RyleKayner

Batwoman can go the way of the dodo as soon as Ruka and JH Williams leave as far as I care. And if she would be so kind as to take Jason with her when she goes, I'll be ever so grateful and erect a shrine for her in the altar of my heart.

I see that you've been reading my mind.

[Fatguy]

I'm hoping that Bruce comes back and resumes his role as Batman, Dick goes back to Nightwing, Tim stays Red Robin, and Detective stays Batwoman's book. I dont mind Damien Robin, so I'm also hoping Batman and Robin continues post-Morrison for the foreseeable future, focusing on the relationship between the two. I think Streets of Gotham has been ok, but I honestly dont really care whether it stays or goes. Sirens will be gone before long.

Batgirl and Azrael up in the air...but I have hopes for Azrael, for superficial reasons. I love his look!

[Berkey]

Well DD said he had thought about killing Dick years ago, but he's doing a hell of a job as Bats now. I think this would be a great oppurtunity to allow Bruce to come back and reclaim the cowl and have Dick take on a new name/role.

Hell give him a jason todd-esque fell from BFTC, along the lines of more growth under his belt, but from that growth doing a little more than the usual bat rules permit (not killing) but worthy enough to wear a simialr cowl as the DK. Tim could get the bump to nightwing, damian could stay as robin to make some good father son stories and the role of red robin could be up in the air for a new character to be created.

Batwoman, not sure yet. she could be ok if the proper writer came aboard, or perhaps the new direction for GC Sirens could be a team up of Batwoman, spoiler, Batgirl (whereever she is now) and ther new batgirl. something along those lines

just a thought

[Kal L]

I wouldn't be against Dick wearing the cape and cowl for a couple of years, to be honest. I love Bruce as Batman but it would be nice to allow Dick to continue as Bats for a while.