Is Doctor Doom really that bad a guy?

[JulianPerez]

I was rereading some of the Mark Waid Fantastic Four run, and I was startled by a few of the things Doom did in that series. For instance, he used Reed's daughter Valeria as his occult familiar, a weapon to use against the FF.

I was shocked, because one of Doom's defining characteristics was, even though he is a megalomaniac and power-hungry, he always had a well developed sense of fair play. In the Wally Wood Astonishing Tales, Doom said that it was beneath him to ever take a woman prisoner. (He did do this back in FF #5, but that was a temporary measure.) I personally think that using a baby as a weapon like that, particularly one given into your care and trust to deliver, and one named after the woman you loved, is a little too "dirty pool" for someone as honorable as Doctor Doom.

One thing I liked about John Byrne's tenure on Fantastic Four is that JB showed that what made Doom such a fresh foe is that he was complicated and had his good points: he actually sincerely, truly cared for the people of Latveria, and they in turn loved him, and he actually did have real fatherly feelings for Kristoff Vernard.

Doom was always an honorable guy with a lot of class. He always kept his word, for one thing. One of my favorite Doom stories has him surrender a fight, because the battle might have damaged his art collection!

If you buy the Mark Waid Fantastic Four hardcover to the Doom story arc, he actually has an explanation: he views Doom as, fundamentally a very petty man that only pretends to be honorable because he sees himself as a great man and this is what great men do. I was absolutely gobsmacked by this interpretation, which I feel was off, because Doom is a complicated man with many motives, he actually has, on a number of occasions demonstrated true honor, particularly when it wasn't convenient for him.

This isn't to say Doom is a nice guy or someone you should trust, but rather...the difference between him and someone like say Magneto is that Doctor Doom is an evil man that does good things, while Magneto, a good man warped by grief and rage, is a good man that does bad things.

That complexity, that there actually are things that make Doom kind of admirable, is one of the most interesting traits of the character. I think, personally, Mark Waid's portrayal was not correct.

Although that story did have its moments...when Val's first word was "Doom" it sent chills up my back! Really great introduction.

[Monty_Cristo]

yes. he's a very bad person. if he weren't such a bad individual he could have saved the world by now.

[Expletive Deleted]

Yes. He's complicated, but the core of the character is his petty, irrational hatred of Reed Richards. He'll tell you that he's an honorable man, and most of the time he'll even live up to that (heck, he may even believe it), but if the price of bringing Reed Richards low is doing something dishonorable, he doesn't think twice.

I think Waid hit the nail right on the head, especially when he pointed out that the evidence of Doom's honor and nobility is largely based on Doom's own self-aggrandizing statements.

EDIT: For some historical context, here are two previous threads on the topic: Why I liked Unthinkable and Dr. Doom: Worse Than Hitler or Secretly Cuddly?

[XPac]

He has his upsides. He has a certain code of honor, and I do think he genuinely wants to serve the greater good.

There's no way you really can't deny that he's a bad person, based on a lot of his actions. That said, there is an amazing human being deep down in there, with the potential to be a great great man. But he's unable to acknowledge or address his own short comings, and that unfortunately keeps him from ever rising above his own faults.

[daveageallen]

ever hear of secret war? gets talked about alot here , big deal back when it came out. like our civil war. that was him. really bad guy. but reed is also a mega duche

[XPac]

Originally Posted by daveageallen

ever hear of secret war? gets talked about alot here , big deal back when it came out. like our civil war. that was him. really bad guy. but reed is also a mega duche

Doom wasn't even actually in Secret War, was he?

[LokiOathbreaker]

Originally Posted by Monty_Cristo

yes. he's a very bad person. if he weren't such a bad individual he could have saved the world by now.

What do you think he's trying to do every other time some hero thwarts his plans to rule the earth 'under the benevolence of his iron fist'?

[CyberHubbs]

Originally Posted by XPac

Doom wasn't even actually in Secret War, was he?

The original, maybe? When he stole the Beyonder's powers?

[XPac]

Originally Posted by CyberHubbs

The original, maybe? When he stole the Beyonder's powers?

Oh, Secret Wars. Not Secret War.

Nevermind, my bad.

[CyberHubbs]

Originally Posted by XPac

He has his upsides. He has a certain code of honor, and I do think he genuinely wants to serve the greater good.

There's no way you really can't deny that he's a bad person, based on a lot of his actions. That said, there is an amazing human being deep down in there, with the potential to be a great great man. But he's unable to acknowledge or address his own short comings, and that unfortunately keeps him from ever rising above his own faults.

He wants to be the guy that saves the world, because then all of humanity will bow before his magnificence. Or else.

[Paladin573]

Doom is Doom baddest of the bad meanest of the mean cruelest of the cruel.


So is Dr. Doom really that bad guy?

Yep

In hero school 101 the first thing they teach you is beware of Dr. Doom

[Michael P]

YES.

He's a goddamn fascist dictator.

[Goshin]

Doom is about as deep and complex as Magneto, writers should dig deeper into him like theyve done magneto the past 30 years

[Alan2099]

Doom is Doom baddest of the bad meanest of the mean cruelest of the cruel.

He's not the baddest or the meanest, but that's what makes him dangerous. A pure evil guy you can never trust. Doom is just honrable enough and helpful enough that you can trust him sometimes and you don't always know when those sometimes end. .

[Dog]

Originally Posted by CyberHubbs

He wants to be the guy that saves the world, because then all of humanity will bow before his magnificence. Or else.

Didn't he do something world-saving around the Heroes Reborn time? My memory's fuzzy.