Black Superheros: Discussion/Debate/Respect

[Freakzeek]

http://paralleluniverse.msn.com/comi...ure/?GT1=28140
"

At the 2008 San Diego Comic-Con, a T-shirt was released with an image of then Sen. Barack Obama in a pose of superheroic proportions. The image, by renowned comic book artist Alex Ross, had Obama tearing off his shirt and revealing a large "O" emblazoned on the chest of a superhero costume underneath. Instantly recognizable as the iconic pose associated with Superman and his mild-mannered alter ego, Clark Kent, Ross' painting helped introduce a new superhero to the world of comics, Super Obama.

Meanwhile, elsewhere in the massive San Diego Convention Center, the annual "black panel" was taking place. A regular fixture among the workshops and panels at Comic-Con, it featured a lineup of creators, most of them black, discussing the current state of affairs in the comic industry as it related to both black creators and black characters. The conversation was pretty much the same one that had been taking place for years, with nothing of significance being said. There was, however, a bitter irony in the fact that, as Super Obama was making his way throughout the Convention Center and America was on the verge of electing its first black president, very little had changed in the world of comics as far as black superheroes were concerned.

Since being elected, Barack Obama has become a popular character in the world of comic books. An admitted comic book fan himself, Obama has made appearances in such titles as "Spider-Man," "Savage Dragon," "Youngblood," "Drafted" and even books like "Barack the Barbarian" and "President Evil" that feature him as the star. "Spider-Man" No. 583, featuring Obama on the cover, has become one of the best-selling comic books in recent years. But what does it say about an industry that can sell out books with the President of the United States on the cover, while at the same time has only one black superhero starring in his own monthly title? As it stands, there are more characters with green skin starring in their own books than there are those with brown skin.

The role of black characters in comics was defined back in 1934 when Lothar, the African "Prince of the Seven Nations" gave up his chance to be king of the jungle in order to play manservant to Mandrake the Magician. Very little changed during the following decades, until leading publishers Marvel and DC began introducing superheroes like Black Panther, Black Lightning and Black Goliath (notice a pattern?) in the late 1960s and 1970s. But any close scrutiny of black superheroes reveals that, for all the advances made during the '70s, most characters of color aren't much better off than Lothar, serving as sidekicks and supporting characters to create the illusion of a more racially diverse comic book universe.

The comic book industry in the United States is dominated by two publishers, Marvel and DC. Marvel was the first to introduce black superpowered heroes in 1966, with Black Panther, ruler of the fictional African nation of Wakanda, followed three years later by Falcon, who was introduced in the pages of "Captain America." Black Panther and Falcon helped set Marvel apart from DC in its use of black heroes, but by the mid-1970s both publishers had a small lineup of characters that had been primarily created to capitalize on the popularity of blaxploitation and kung fu movies of the day. Marvel had the X-Men's Storm, Black Goliath, Brother Voodoo, Blade, Misty Knight and Luke Cage, the most enduring, iconic and popular of Marvel's black superheroes (of course, when you're being compared with Brother Voodoo and Black Goliath, winning a popularity contest isn't difficult).

DC's list of notable black heroes was much shorter. The first black superhero at DC was John Stewart, who became part of the elite Green Lantern Corps in 1971, when creative team Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams were tackling such heady issues as racism. DC would not get around to creating another prominent black superhero for six more years. By the time DC introduced Black Lightning in his own book in 1977, Marvel's Falcon had partnered with Captain America, Black Panther had starred in "Jungle Action," Luke Cage was still going strong, and Black Goliath had already crashed and burned in his own title. Often confused with Black Vulcan, the token black member of the animated series "Super Friends," Black Lightning had the sad distinction of being the only superhero to wear a helmet that looked like an Afro.

Marvel and DC introduced a handful of black superheroes as little more than throwaways that would hopefully appeal to some cross-section of readers (preferably black readers who longed to see heroes that looked like them), and would create an illusion of diversity. The problem was, and continues to be, that the black characters at Marvel and DC were seldom more than tokens, and almost never taken seriously from either a creative or a business standpoint.

In 1998, the film "Blade," starring Wesley Snipes, transformed a third-tier Marvel character into a major film franchise and a television series. But in his comic incarnation, Blade the vampire slayer has continued to drift aimlessly, starring in a few limited-run series, and making guest appearances here and there. You would never know that the comic character was responsible for a film series that earned more than $400 million worldwide at the box office, because Marvel never bothered to take the character any more seriously than it had since he was introduced in 1973.

In 2001, when the animated series "Justice League" debuted, producer Bruce Timm decided to include John Stewart's Green Lantern on the team. Stewart's inclusion in the animated series catapulted him to a new level of popularity with fans, and he became the main Green Lantern for many. But Stewart's popularity on the show was never built upon in comics. While the character Harley Quinn, introduced in "Batman: The Animated Series," was given her own title, Stewart's comic adventures were still relegated to supporting roles.

Perhaps no black superhero best represents the lack of vision and overall apathy within the comic book industry than Static. Created in 1993, when DC partnered with Milestone Media to produce a landmark line of comics featuring primarily black heroes, "Static" was part of a roster that included "Icon," "Hardware," and "Blood Syndicate." Static would enjoy the greatest success of all the Milestone characters thanks to the animated television series, "Static Shock." But despite four popular seasons, the series itself has never been collected on DVD, there was never an on-going spin-off comic book series based on the show, and there were no action figures (except for a free giveaway from Subway). By comparison, DC's other animated shows based on Batman, Superman and Justice League have all been accompanied by massive merchandising campaigns. With only one season so far, "Batman: The Brave and the Bold" has spawned a spin-off comic series and a line of action figures that includes 10 different Batman figures.

Although the comic book industry exists to create fantastic tales and epic adventures, the publishers that drive the market don't take chances and seldom try anything new. More resources are spent thinking of new ways to tell the same old Spider-Man and Batman stories over and over again; because, as far as anyone is concerned, that's the formula that works. But when you take characters like Black Lightning or Black Goliath that never worked in the first place, and try to repeat the same formula, you'll continue to fail. And then when the fans don't embrace the black superheroes or the books they're in because it's a rehash of the same junk that didn't work in 1975, the publishers use that as a justification to not even bother developing heroes of color.

The truth is that there are great black superheroes out there; but they can be hard to find. "Brotherman," independently published by creators by Dawud Anyabwile and Guy Sims, first appeared in the early 1990s and only lasted 11 issues, but has built an incredible cult following over the past two decades. Infusing a hip-hop aesthetic into the world of comics, "Brotherman" possessed a raw authenticity that eluded black superheroes created by mainstream publishers, which is a main part of the reason the character has lived on. The same is true for Chocolate Thunder, the urban crime fighter created by brothers Jeremy, Robert and Maurice Love, who has become a cult figure in the world of comics. With only a handful of stories having been published, the Love brothers' epic "Chocolate Thunder" graphic novel, a mix of superheroics, blaxploitation and kung-fu action, has languished without a publisher for almost two years.

For an industry with a tremendous level of influence over pop culture and the world of entertainment, comic books are pathetically behind the times. At a time when Barack Obama is president of the United States, Will Smith is the top box office star worldwide, and the music charts are dominated by hip-hop and R&B, there is only one monthly comic book currently being published starring a black superhero (Black Panther). And while that is not some call to arms for the industry to start producing comics with black heroes, it is time for all comic publishers, not just Marvel and DC, to actually step into the 21st century. "

Your Thoughts?

[Freakzeek]

[zebop]

I don't think you have to be overly analytical of why there are so few prominent Black superheroes. Comic books are primarily made by White males for White males.

It's not necessarily deliberate racism as much as it is a concession to the realities of the marketplace. A lot of Black kids grew up wanting to be Batman. I'm not sure there are nearly as many White kids who wanted to be The Falcon or John Stewart.

Comic books have been part of my formative years right into adulthood. I used to get annoyed by clumsy attempts by well-meaning White writers who attempted to "do" Black superheroes but only made Luke Cage sound like something they dreamed up after watching too many Blaxploitation movies. Or they erred on the other side and made The Black Panther the Sidney Poitier of comic book heroes: impossibly polite, unflappingly cool and a credit to his race.

I don't much care anymore that Luke Cage 2009 isn't that much of an improvement from the 1979 version. At least he doesn't say "Sweet Christmas" all the time any more and stopped saying "jive turkey" completely.

These days that is what passes for progress in comics.

[XPac]

I think it's getting better, though it could improve a lot more.

There are a lot of black characters being used well, but far less black characters than caucasian and none of them are top tier cash cows.

I think Cage is being used very well by Bendis in NA. He has the potential to really be a big character.

I think Storm at one time was HUGE. She hasn't been really pushes as hard as she could in recent years, but she's still (in my opinion) marvels top female character, and arguably the most high profile character of color in all of comics.

And Black Panther has his own book. He's getting his own cartoon. His push has been pretty consistant and strong, despite not being what many would consider a high profile character. And despite his book not exactly buring up the sales charts. Marvel is trying.

I do have to say this though... in some ways black characters are a lot luckier than any other minority. The list of notable black charcters may arguably be short... but it's still probably miles longer than the list of asian and latino characters combined. So comparably speaking, the progress on that regard is actually somewhat impressive even though obviously a lot more can still be done.

[ijffdrie]

Originally Posted by XPac

I think it's getting better, though it could improve a lot more.

There are a lot of black characters being used well, but far less black characters than caucasian and none of them are top tier cash cows.

There is a logic to there being more caucasian then black characters. I believe 15% of america is black, right? i dont know how many of Marvels new characters(as in created in the last 20 years) are black.
Also, i dont really know who the top-tier cash cows are. But i assume it are the original characters from the 60's and deadpool. In the 60's all new characters were white, so i dont think the fact the top cash-cows arent black has anything to do with todays market, rather then the market of 50 years ago, and the characters from that market staying popular.

I think Cage is being used very well by Bendis in NA. He has the potential to really be a big character.

meh, never really liked him, he always gets on my nerves.

I think Storm at one time was HUGE. She hasn't been really pushes as hard as she could in recent years, but she's still (in my opinion) marvels top female character, and arguably the most high profile character of color in all of comics.

I think black panther is more high profile then Storm.

And Black Panther has his own book. He's getting his own cartoon. His push has been pretty consistant and strong, despite not being what many would consider a high profile character. And despite his book not exactly buring up the sales charts. Marvel is trying.

I do have to say this though... in some ways black characters are a lot luckier than any other minority. The list of notable black charcters may arguably be short... but it's still probably miles longer than the list of asian and latino characters combined. So comparably speaking, the progress on that regard is actually somewhat impressive even though obviously a lot more can still be done.

i for one think it will even out over time.
Think of it like this.

ask a white 8 year old in a white neighboorhood to draw a human and ask a black 8 year in a black neighbourhood old to draw a human. the white kid will draw a white person, and the black kid will draw a black person. This is not racism, but its simply something that is. Now the kids have grown up into comic book writers, and they need to devise a new character, chances are that the white comic writer makes more white characters then the black comic book writer, and vice versa. This isnt neccesarily racism, its just something that is.

Ill give you that azians are underrepresented though. Even if you only look at characters made in the last 20 years.


also this quote from the article:

Although the comic book industry exists to create fantastic tales and epic adventures, the publishers that drive the market don't take chances and seldom try anything new. More resources are spent thinking of new ways to tell the same old Spider-Man and Batman stories over and over again; because, as far as anyone is concerned, that's the formula that works. But when you take characters like Black Lightning or Black Goliath that never worked in the first place, and try to repeat the same formula, you'll continue to fail. And then when the fans don't embrace the black superheroes or the books they're in because it's a rehash of the same junk that didn't work in 1975, the publishers use that as a justification to not even bother developing heroes of color.

Which pretty much states that if you do the samething with black characters as you do with white characters its suddenly wrong.

For an industry with a tremendous level of influence over pop culture and the world of entertainment, comic books are pathetically behind the times. At a time when Barack Obama is president of the United States, Will Smith is the top box office star worldwide, and the music charts are dominated by hip-hop and R&B, there is only one monthly comic book currently being published starring a black superhero (Black Panther). And while that is not some call to arms for the industry to start producing comics with black heroes, it is time for all comic publishers, not just Marvel and DC, to actually step into the 21st century

apparently team books dont count, because otherwise new avengers would be in there too. How many books does that leave us with anyway? Iron man, captain america, thor, spider-man, cable, daredevil, wolverine, hulk, hercules, punisher, war machine(wait, wasnt he black?)
if we only look at characters not from the original stories, we get wolverine, war machine and black panther.

The problem does not lie with black characters being underdeveloped apparently, but rather, with new characters being underused, and thus as a result, also black characters, since those werent made in the 60's.

[Excelsior]

Originally Posted by XPac

I think it's getting better, though it could improve a lot more.

There are a lot of black characters being used well, but far less black characters than caucasian and none of them are top tier cash cows.

I think Cage is being used very well by Bendis in NA. He has the potential to really be a big character.

I think Storm at one time was HUGE. She hasn't been really pushes as hard as she could in recent years, but she's still (in my opinion) marvels top female character, and arguably the most high profile character of color in all of comics.

And Black Panther has his own book. He's getting his own cartoon. His push has been pretty consistant and strong, despite not being what many would consider a high profile character. And despite his book not exactly buring up the sales charts. Marvel is trying.

I do have to say this though... in some ways black characters are a lot luckier than any other minority. The list of notable black charcters may arguably be short... but it's still probably miles longer than the list of asian and latino characters combined. So comparably speaking, the progress on that regard is actually somewhat impressive even though obviously a lot more can still be done.

One could argue that the degree of prejudice Asians and Latinos receive is of a lesser nature to blacks. We are often maligned as criminals, dumb and a burden to society. Thus, Latinos, Asians and others have less of a need for positive role models..because they arent stereotyped as much.

But comparing woes is always a bad idea.

[XPac]

Originally Posted by ijffdrie

There is a logic to there being more caucasian then black characters. I believe 15% of america is black, right? i dont know how many of Marvels new characters(as in created in the last 20 years) are black.
Also, i dont really know who the top-tier cash cows are. But i assume it are the original characters from the 60's and deadpool. In the 60's all new characters were white, so i dont think the fact the top cash-cows arent black has anything to do with todays market, rather then the market of 50 years ago, and the characters from that market staying popular.



meh, never really liked him, he always gets on my nerves.



I think black panther is more high profile then Storm.



i for one think it will even out over time.
Think of it like this.

ask a white 8 year old in a white neighboorhood to draw a human and ask a black 8 year in a black neighbourhood old to draw a human. the white kid will draw a white person, and the black kid will draw a black person. This is not racism, but its simply something that is. Now the kids have grown up into comic book writers, and they need to devise a new character, chances are that the white comic writer makes more white characters then the black comic book writer, and vice versa. This isnt neccesarily racism, its just something that is.

Ill give you that azians are underrepresented though. Even if you only look at characters made in the last 20 years.

In regards to Black Panther and Storm... Storm was leader of the X-Men during a good percentage of the time when X-Men was marvels top selling book.

She's been in 3 X-Men movies played by a reasonably high profile actress (though her part admittedly wasn't that significant), and several X-Men cartoons. I think that's part of the reason why she was placed in Marvel Adventures Avengers despite the character never being an Avenger in the 616... she was a character big enough to stand alongside Cap and Spidey and Hulk and Wolverine.

But that aside... I think things will even up more overtime. I'm not sure it will ever completely even up, and if it doesn't I'm actually okay with that. As long as marvel and the industry in general makes some kind of effort (without it being too overly forced or preachy), I can live with it.

[ijffdrie]

Originally Posted by XPac

In regards to Black Panther and Storm... Storm was leader of the X-Men during a good percentage of the time when X-Men was marvels top selling book.

She's been in 3 X-Men movies played by a reasonably high profile actress (though her part admittedly wasn't that significant), and several X-Men cartoons. I think that's part of the reason why she was placed in Marvel Adventures Avengers despite the character never being an Avenger in the 616... she was a character big enough to stand alongside Cap and Spidey and Hulk and Wolverine.

But that aside... I think things will even up more overtime. I'm not sure it will ever completely even up, and if it doesn't I'm actually okay with that. As long as marvel and the industry in general makes some kind of effort (without it being too overly forced or preachy), I can live with it.

i doubt it will even up at least in the next 50 years, Thor, spiderman, iron man, captain america and daredevil will always be among the top characters. The only characters that reached that popularity were Wolverine and Deadpool.
So in 50 years, only 2 new characters got that popular. Lets say that there is a 25% chance one of the new popular characters is a black character, which means that every 25 years, there is a 25 percent chance of there being a popular new black character. so one hundred years for a new popular black character, in which time 3 new white characters have gotten popular. then that means one out of eleven popular characters is black in one hundred years, even though 25% of the characters being created is black.


mathematics suck though

[XPac]

Originally Posted by Excelsior

One could argue that the degree of prejudice Asians and Latinos receive is of a lesser nature to blacks. We are often maligned as criminals, dumb and a burden to society. Thus, Latinos, Asians and others have less of a need for positive role models..because they arent stereotyped as much.

But comparing woes is always a bad idea.

Eh... I'd like to think everyone needs positive role models. I won't say that one group or more or less stereotyped because it's not really something that can be proven, one way or the other.

But I do think bad stereotypes exists in media in general... even for caucasians. When isn't the villain some rich convervative white guy? Again, I think things are getting better, though obviously more can be done.

As a person that's neither white or black, I've long ago come to accept the reality that I'm probably never going to get some superhero that ethnically looks exactly like the guy I see in the mirror... but I'm actually okay with that to be honest. I can understand why others aren't okay with it... but I'm perfectly okay relating to Peter Parker regardless of the fact that I'm not white. His skin color was frankly never important to me.

[Excelsior]

Originally Posted by XPac

Eh... I'd like to think everyone needs positive role models. I won't say that one group or more or less stereotyped because it's not really something that can be proven, one way or the other.

But I do think bad stereotypes exists in media in general... even for caucasians. When isn't the villain some rich convervative white guy? Again, I think things are getting better, though obviously more can be done.

As a person that's neither white or black, I've long ago come to accept the reality that I'm probably never going to get some superhero that ethnically looks exactly like the guy I see in the mirror... but I'm actually okay with that to be honest. I can understand why others aren't okay with it... but I'm perfectly okay relating to Peter Parker regardless of the fact that I'm not white. His skin color was frankly never important to me.

Well i'm both--white and black. And i have a unique perspective.

[Greg Anderson]

I think all races need to be represented more. I find it terrible that at the year 2009, a majority of comic characters are still white and minorities are still on a mega low. Sure it's "better" than it used to be, but we don't have a main Asian character with their own book (actually, Chew from Image comics), and it seems when a group of black characters come together, folks get into a big tissy. Hell, if Black Lightning and John Stewart talk about hair, it's because they're black. :rolleyes: Readers have a long way to go themselves. There's still many readers who refuse to read a book with a black lead because either they're not used to it, don't think they can relate, or the stories are never that well done. Now I'm sure if you put someone like Ennis on Blade (which I'm still wondering why Marvel has NEVER thought of this) Blade would be a much popular character in the comic-world.

This time being that diversity is pretty much a bit of a must given the country we live in now, we're still seeing teams that are filled with just white characters. When a team starts to add diversity in a way, people call tokenism. It's as if there's no way to win. I was enjoying McDuffie's JLA run not because the characters were mostly minorities, but because I was enjoying the characters. The characters McDuffie was using I never cared for and never read anything with them. I grew to really love them and liked seeing them work together. And I love John Stewart at that. But people complained and bashed and bitched. Hell, we got inspiring comments such as this when referring to the team...

"...how many blacks did McDuffie manage to sneak onto the team this time--five? (I bet DC editorial gave him the same order as Burger King in that lawsuit--to "lighten things up around here.")"

"Why don't they call this the "Minority League"? "

"I don't think anyone will support an original black "mainstream" character. I know I won't."

"Maybe they should establish a separate league for all the negro superheroes. I'm not saying kick them ALL off. One would be okay. (Doesn't Hollywood have some kind of law that says every movie has to have at least one black in it?) I just think they're going overboard with all this diversity stuff. I mean, how many comics do minorities read anyway?"

And my favorite…

"Couldn't they get Static, Black Lightning, or one of his daughters instead of Dr. Light on the cover of BET League of America? Ha!"

One thing I also hate is when I mention a character I love that happens to be black, I get a reaction from someone like, "Oh why of course. It's because you're black. Why else would you like him/her?" So then that's a reason why you like your plain ol' white characters and don't support other races, I'm guessing? :rolleyes:

Anyways, since this is also about appreciating other black heroes, here are my favorites...

[Greg Anderson]

[ijffdrie]

Originally Posted by Greg Anderson

I think all races need to be represented more. I find it terrible that at the year 2009, a majority of comic characters are still white and minorities are still on a mega low.

just so you know, caucasian is also a race

This time being that diversity is pretty much a bit of a must given the country we live in now, we're still seeing teams that are filled with just white characters. When a team starts to add diversity in a way, people call tokenism. It's as if there's no way to win. I was enjoying McDuffie's JLA run not because the characters were mostly minorities, but because I was enjoying the characters. The characters McDuffie was using I never cared for and never read anything with them. I grew to really love them and liked seeing them work together. And I love John Stewart at that. But people complained and bashed and bitched. Hell, we got inspiring comments such as this when referring to the team...

"...how many blacks did McDuffie manage to sneak onto the team this time--five? (I bet DC editorial gave him the same order as Burger King in that lawsuit--to "lighten things up around here.")"

"Why don't they call this the "Minority League"? "

"I don't think anyone will support an original black "mainstream" character. I know I won't."

"Maybe they should establish a separate league for all the negro superheroes. I'm not saying kick them ALL off. One would be okay. (Doesn't Hollywood have some kind of law that says every movie has to have at least one black in it?) I just think they're going overboard with all this diversity stuff. I mean, how many comics do minorities read anyway?"

And my favorite…

"Couldn't they get Static, Black Lightning, or one of his daughters instead of Dr. Light on the cover of BET League of America? Ha!"

you can always find quotes of morons on the internet. And the people who are dumb and like to complain are a lot louder then the rest.

I dont know the sales of JLA so i could be wrong though, so maybe it really dropped in sales.

One thing I also hate is when I mention a character I love that happens to be black, I get a reaction from someone like, "Oh why of course. It's because you're black. Why else would you like him/her?" So then that's a reason why you like your plain ol' white characters and don't support other races, I'm guessing?

always hate it when people do that, i dont understand why a white person shouldnt be able to relate to a black character or vice versa.

[Cloudman]

Originally Posted by zebop

It's not necessarily deliberate racism as much as it is a concession to the realities of the marketplace. A lot of Black kids grew up wanting to be Batman. I'm not sure there are nearly as many White kids who wanted to be The Falcon or John Stewart.

To be fair, Batman is a much more popular and well-known character than the Falcon or John Stewart, so the example you stated is hardly surprising. However, this does also show that black or caucasian superheroes have more minor roles in comics. I don't think enough progress is being made in this area. Having such a small number of important black or caucasian characters is unrealistic.

[Charles RB]

Originally Posted by ijffdrie

I think black panther is more high profile then Storm.

She's been in cartoons and films, so she's got a higher profile for a moment.

The problem does not lie with black characters being underdeveloped apparently, but rather, with new characters being underused, and thus as a result, also black characters, since those werent made in the 60's.

Exactly. There might be some subconscious racism - and some of the comments made about McDuffie's JLA line-up and Faiza in Captain Britain are very consciously racist - but in general the lack of non-white characters are because there weren't many non-white lead characters in the Silver Age. And a lot of readers and creators want comics to remain in the same place as when they were young, which until fairly recently would be the Silver Age.

Originally Posted by Excelsior

One could argue that the degree of prejudice Asians and Latinos receive is of a lesser nature to blacks. We are often maligned as criminals, dumb and a burden to society.

So are Latinos, aren't they? Especially if they're Mexican or mistaken for Mexican.

Originally Posted by Greg Anderson

we don't have a main Asian character with their own book

There was the second Batgirl and Atom (the former with a very long run), but their titles got cancelled. Despite, IIRC, Batgirl selling okay at the time.

Now I'm sure if you put someone like Ennis on Blade (which I'm still wondering why Marvel has NEVER thought of this) Blade would be a much popular character in the comic-world.

It's possible they did and he didn't want it, but working-class, elderly, British immigrant to America, and he kills things? It does seem like something he'd have some fun with.

Blade was very good in Captain Britain and MI:13 and had a prominent role, but of course that title got cancelled too...