A Thought on Batman 666.....

[_Move]

Seeing as Lane is now Azrael, and when you look closely, the 3rd Batman that fights future Damien is caucasian, I had and interesting thought.....


Who was most recently an evil red-eyed Batman?

Think about it

It would be quite an awsome twist and would provide a motivated suspect to the current Batman's killer (Dick) in #666.

Getting kicked off a train and replaced as Batman had to hurt JT's precious little feelings.

Thoughts?

*evidence for those that need it*

-The 3rd Batman in #666 refers to himself and Damien as "Sons of the Batman...in our own way"

-He offers Damien to Join him, much like JT has done with Onyx, Mia, Tim AND Dick.

- Mentions that Batman failed to kill him when he had the chance. I see this as the Train fight from BFTC, however, it could be a number of instances when JT had fought either Bruce or Dick.

- "I prayed and prayed until he came.......the Dragon...."

Lane had already been contacted by The Devil/Dr.Hurt figure before he came in contact with Batman. JT is yet to come in contact with this figure. After his ass-kicking he recieved on the train, and his probable mental state afterward seeing Dick run around as a media-beloved Batman, he no doubt would be in the deperate position to make any kind of bargain to replace and kill Batman.


P.S. Feel free to hire me to write this Dan in an Elsworlds tale ;-)

[Nathan]

i pray to God that 666 will be some sort of alternate reality a what if kinda thing, your theroy is good though

[JohnNevets]

I'm fairly new to the recent bat universe (started reading singles with whatever and bftc) even though I'd picked up the occasional trade before. After I read bftc I wanted to get more caught up on the back story, so after reading RIP and Final Crisis in trade, I also read 666 (it seemed to get referenced everywhere).

Having read in this sort of reverse order it apparently gave me a bit different of perspective, because based on that I always assumed the the rouge batman was JT, I had no clue until reading this that others assumed differently. Even though is name is never mentioned I came to the conclusion based on all your points, and the fact that they just overall felt like the same character.

On a slightly different note, has it been confirmed (or am I totally off) that the helicopter pilot at the end of RIP could also have been JT?

Thanks for the insightful post,

John

[_Move]

Pretty sure the heli pilot was Lane, the former 3rd Batman and current Azrael. JT was knocking around in Robin at that time.

[Kiryu]

I too have been speculating that the new rogue Batman might be JT since the Gun-Bat costume appeared. So I think you're right on the money.

We know The Red Hood is showing up soon, new costume, but I have a feeling either the new Red Hood or the Domino killer will be Jason Todd. We know he's appearing in Batman and Robin thanks to Grant's earliest interviews. We also know Doctor Hurt is due for a visit.

So yeah, Jason Todd as the 666 Batman sounds probable.

[Psavell2]

The only thing that doesn't add up is that in 666 Damian says "You were the third man..."
The Third Man was definitely Lane, not Jason. Of course, I don't specifically remember the rogue Batman confirming Damian's deduction, so this can be dismissed until any possible point at which Damian learns that The Third Man is now Azrael in current continuity. Then it just makes sense that he would have said "You were Azrael...", since that would have been the most recent identity by which he knew him.

[carabas]

It's really simple. Lane is the third Batman, and either he won't be Azrael for very long, or the 666 timeline is already discarded.

Or editorial simply didn't care if Batman #666 and the Azrael mini squared up or not. At least at the time #666 was written, the next Azrael was going to be ex-Manhunter Mark Shaw

[Psavell2]

Originally Posted by carabas

It's really simple. Lane is the third Batman, and either he won't be Azrael for very long, or the 666 timeline is already discarded.

Or editorial simply didn't care if Batman #666 and the Azrael mini squared up or not. At least at the time #666 was written, the next Azrael was going to be ex-Manhunter Mark Shaw

That is the simplest, and therefore likeliest answer, though the possibilities are virtually without limit. They can do pretty much anything they want to. Jason Todd is the very proof of that.

I always assumed that #666 would eventually be undone, but since Morrison insists that there are clues to the present storyline within it, I made no assumptions as to how much of it he's committed to.

When I was a teenager, Marvel did a number of things with Spider-man that shattered the longstanding status quo, two of the big ones being that after twenty-odd years, suddenly Norman Osborn had just been pretending to be dead for all these years, and it turned out that Ned Leeds had never really been the Hobgoblin at all; he had been framed.
A handful of years later it turned out that Sandman's status as a reformed villain, something that had been established when I was just a child, had actually been a ruse all along. Rather than do a simple backslide to villainy, Marvel decided to go with the ridiculous notion that Sandman had planned from the beginning to pretend to go straight for several years in order to get Spider-man to let his guard down. Then, after gaining this advantage, he does nothing with it! He just taunts Spider-man with how he fooled him, then runs off to join the latest incarnation of The Sinister Six. Of course this is around the time I stopped reading Spider-man, so perhaps the ruse was actually a double ruse to get in with the other villains as a spy or something, I don't really know.

My point is, regardless of how long Lane is Azrael, DC could easily decide to revert him to his previous status at any time,(they could even still have Mark Shaw replace him as Azrael without even relaunching the series if they so desired) so I don't think this supports the definite demise of the #666 future yet.

[Captain Jim]

Originally Posted by carabas

It's really simple. Lane is the third Batman, and either he won't be Azrael for very long...

I think he'll be Azrael for at least as long as his new series sells well.

or the 666 timeline is already discarded. Or editorial simply didn't care if Batman #666 and the Azrael mini squared up or not.

Either is possible.

At least at the time #666 was written, the next Azrael was going to be ex-Manhunter Mark Shaw

Huh?

[carabas]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

Huh?

In Manhunter, Mark Shaw was recruited by a faction of the Order of St. Dumas to be their new Azrael.

[flapjaxx]

Originally Posted by _Move

the 3rd Batman that fights future Damien is caucasian,

No, the guy in the 3rd Batman suit has always been black, including in the 666 issue. Toward the end of the issue the guy's red eye-shields are blasted out and you can see a bit of skin around his eyes--it's black skin. It's always been the same guy, "Lane", in that suit, from 666, to 672-674, to RIP.

[MatthewHex]

That is an interesting theory, Grant is such a master of planting little clues I'm going to go back and read that issue.

[360wavesandxbox]

Originally Posted by Psavell2

The only thing that doesn't add up is that in 666 Damian says "You were the third man..."
The Third Man was definitely Lane, not Jason. Of course, I don't specifically remember the rogue Batman confirming Damian's deduction, so this can be dismissed until any possible point at which Damian learns that The Third Man is now Azrael in current continuity. Then it just makes sense that he would have said "You were Azrael...", since that would have been the most recent identity by which he knew him.

Just speculation here since i am fairly new to the batman mythos, yet i have read all of morrison's run. Maybe by the "third man", he meant he was supposed to be the "third man" to take the cowl and succeed bruce..
Think about it...After Bruce was Dick, after Dick, who was 3rd? Jason Todd correct? This is purely a guess..but it seems as if morrison left himself an out with that wording..

[_Move]

Originally Posted by flapjaxx

No, the guy in the 3rd Batman suit has always been black, including in the 666 issue. Toward the end of the issue the guy's red eye-shields are blasted out and you can see a bit of skin around his eyes--it's black skin. It's always been the same guy, "Lane", in that suit, from 666, to 672-674, to RIP.

Gotta disagree dude, the flesh around the eyes looks white, or at the very least burnt and pinkish.

[Psavell2]

Originally Posted by 360wavesandxbox

Just speculation here since i am fairly new to the batman mythos, yet i have read all of morrison's run. Maybe by the "third man", he meant he was supposed to be the "third man" to take the cowl and succeed bruce..
Think about it...After Bruce was Dick, after Dick, who was 3rd? Jason Todd correct? This is purely a guess..but it seems as if morrison left himself an out with that wording..

I doubt that's what was intended at the time, but it is a possible out if someone wants to twist and torque to make it fit that way in the future. If you look up the storylines from then on various websites, the character is referred to as The Third Ghost or The Third Man. I'm certain Grant meant him to be percieved as being the same character, at least at that time. As for his skin color, I believe at the time he was still a mysterious figure, nothing had been revealed about him yet. So maybe the colorist just assumed he was white. I could see this being an oversight. But the way things are retconned all the time, anything's possible now.