What's the purpose of the Teen Titans book? How and why is the team allowed to exist?

[pad]

Originally Posted by jamesfreeman

On the whole, YJ doesn't exist to any of the writers we've had on Teen Titans. Like, why weren't Empress, Lagoon Boy, and Secret given the inviation by Kory to join the new Teen Titans at the start of the book?

Aside from a brief scene where they show Cassie hanging out with Arrowette at school, we haven't had any real mention of the team.

Didn't Empress and Arrowette make an appearance in Wonder Girl's mini?
Actually Secret was made human, and Empress left to take care of her parents who are now infants. Also, Empress did try to start a "League of Titans" (Targets) group that was part of the Final Crisis event. Did the writers mention her parents?

[pad]

Originally Posted by BallsMonkey

But Robin wasn't in charge. Cyborg was. The only time I really saw Robin actively take command was during Infinite Crisis, when Wonder Girl wasn't there.

Ok, I was going from memory, but it seemed like Cyborg was more of a mentor/advisor, but Robin was in charge when they were in the field. But even if I were wrong about Robin's leadership role, it doesn't change my main point about what Wonder Girl is going through now and the purpose Johns (and probably more Didio) had for making YJ into TT.

[Doc Goblin]

I always saw the Cyborg/Robin dynamic in a sort of school sports team way. Cyborg was the coach, but Robin was the team captain. Cyborg was there to mentor and teach them what he could. Robin was there to call the shots when the kids were in the field.

It's a role I'd like to see Cyborg return to. I thought it made his character stand out more. He's wasted on a nostalgic Titans lineup (like most all of the characters are). Being on the Justice League could be interesting, but I don't think it'll be better than his role as the Teen Titans coach.

And as for Beast Boy trying to fill that role? Lame.

[jamesfreeman]

Originally Posted by pad

Didn't Empress and Arrowette make an appearance in Wonder Girl's mini?
Actually Secret was made human, and Empress left to take care of her parents who are now infants. Also, Empress did try to start a "League of Titans" (Targets) group that was part of the Final Crisis event. Did the writers mention her parents?

Empress showed up in Supergirl, and that was her most substantial appearance in years.

I don't think a break is needed. Just put character that people actually LIKE back on the team. It's reall head scratching, because they teased us in the recruitment drive storyline with all these more established characters like Speedy, Misfit, Maya, and all these other people, and yet we still got stuck with Bombshell, who pretty much no one seems to like. If you're really reaching that far for members, why not just put Empress back in or something?

[mswood]

First off Angst in and of itself isn't a bad thing. If it fits the character then there is nothing wrong about it.

Take the 80's Titans, that team had a ton of Angst, but it fit thecharacters.

From Raven a tortured soul,and demon spawn. Starfire, just recently freed from utter slavery, to Cyborg just recently losing half his body and now a horrific man/machine, to Changeling a person whose live had been meet with constant Tragedy. Hell the only ones not tortured were Donna, Dick and Wally yet all had very real problems to deal with. And all were treated more as legitimate characters on the titans then ever in their mentors Books. Hell most of them were better realized characters then their mentors with Wolfman and Perez.

But Wolfman (especially at the early stage, before Perez really took a major role in coplotting) gave them a legitimate reason for forming and managed to give legitimate reasons for them to stay together.

And while the dialogue doesn't hold up today, when you compare it to the material of its time its very, very well done.

So the general concept can work, and it can work well. It just hasn't for a long time.

[pad]

Originally Posted by Doc Goblin

I always saw the Cyborg/Robin dynamic in a sort of school sports team way. Cyborg was the coach, but Robin was the team captain. Cyborg was there to mentor and teach them what he could. Robin was there to call the shots when the kids were in the field.

It's a role I'd like to see Cyborg return to. I thought it made his character stand out more. He's wasted on a nostalgic Titans lineup (like most all of the characters are). Being on the Justice League could be interesting, but I don't think it'll be better than his role as the Teen Titans coach.

And as for Beast Boy trying to fill that role? Lame.

I don't think it is lame for Beast Boy (who should go back to being called Changling, imo) to fill that role. He has had leadership roles before. My problem with the way Gar is being written now is that it is opposite from the Titans story where he leaves New York to go back to San Francisco. In the Titans story, he gets serious and helps out the Teens. He is competent and the other team members valued his experience. Now he is being an ass and Blue Beetle (also out of character) is giving him grief.

[DeTroyes]

Originally Posted by pad

I don't think it is lame for Beast Boy (who should go back to being called Changling, imo) to fill that role. He has had leadership roles before. My problem with the way Gar is being written now is that it is opposite from the Titans story where he leaves New York to go back to San Francisco. In the Titans story, he gets serious and helps out the Teens. He is competent and the other team members valued his experience.

Or look at the way he was written in his mini series, where he was depicted as very competent and determined to prove himself (he even tells off Nightwing in one scene). That's the Gar they should be writing now.

Unfortunately, ever since the advent of the animated series, too many writers seem to consider watching a few TV episodes off of their DVR to constitute "research" when it comes to the character.

[pad]

Originally Posted by DeTroyes

Or look at the way he was written in his mini series, where he was depicted as very competent and determined to prove himself (he even tells off Nightwing in one scene). That's the Gar they should be writing now.

Unfortunately, ever since the advent of the animated series, too many writers seem to consider watching a few TV episodes off of their DVR to constitute "research" when it comes to the character.

Agreed. And it is because of that animated series that he is called Beast Boy now and has that dumb fang sticking out of his mouth. I really wish he would be drawn a little more human. I know there is an 'in-story' reason for the change, but the cartoon is finished. Let that Beast Boy live on in Tiny Titans.

[jamesfreeman]

Originally Posted by DeTroyes

Or look at the way he was written in his mini series, where he was depicted as very competent and determined to prove himself (he even tells off Nightwing in one scene). That's the Gar they should be writing now.

Unfortunately, ever since the advent of the animated series, too many writers seem to consider watching a few TV episodes off of their DVR to constitute "research" when it comes to the character.

Well, the odd thing was that Geoff himself (despite co-writing the mini) reverted Gar into a goofball jokestar in his reboot. It wasn't until 52 and One Year Later that he was once again shown to be mature.

And I didn't really have that much of a problem with the way he was written in 75 and 76. He was portrayed as being overconfident and dickish, but he wasn't made out to be the bafoon that many write him as.

[DeTroyes]

Originally Posted by jamesfreeman

Well, the odd thing was that Geoff himself (despite co-writing the mini) reverted Gar into a goofball jokestar in his reboot. It wasn't until 52 and One Year Later that he was once again shown to be mature.

Actually, I don't think he was reverted all that much in Johns' TT. Yes, he still cracked jokes; but even then he showed a lot more maturity about when to use his humor and when not to. And he most certainly DIDN'T make the kind of jerkish and insulting comments that Judd Winick consistently wrote for him.

And I didn't really have that much of a problem with the way he was written in 75 and 76. He was portrayed as being overconfident and dickish, but he wasn't made out to be the bafoon that many write him as.

I'll give Henderson that. Like I've said elsewhere, I think Felicia Henderson has potential. Most of the problems I saw with Gar's depiction in those issues were also evident with all the other Titans as well, which points more towards Henderson's general writing style being the culprit rather than a problem with the character.

I've got a feeling Beast Boy is going to be becoming an increasingly important character in the next year, both in Teen Titans and perhaps in the DCU at large.

[jamesfreeman]

Originally Posted by DeTroyes

Actually, I don't think he was reverted all that much in Johns' TT. Yes, he still cracked jokes; but even then he showed a lot more maturity about when to use his humor and when not to. And he most certainly DIDN'T make the kind of jerkish and insulting comments that Judd Winick consistently wrote for him.

Ultimately, I feel that the Teen Titans book, for better or for worse, has been hugely influenced by the cartoon. I always supsected the entire "mentors" idea was just a clever plot point to justify putting Robin, Raven, Cyborg, Beast Boy, and Starfire on a team.

We saw Beast Boy adopt his cartoon outfit and eventually the fangs and pointed ears.

Mas Y Menos were brought into the books (though Geoff never really used them).

Titans Tomorrow Cyborg has the same design as cartoon Cyborg.

ECT, ECT. So while I don't neccesarily like all those changes, I do understand that the cartoons and movies are always gonna play a part in what happens in these books.

[BallsMonkey]

Originally Posted by Mundungus

Geoff Johns' run got me in to Teen Titans. Yeah it was dark and moody at times but I felt the enthusiasm from the characters. I haven't picked it up since, because I feel like all these kids are miserable and don't really want to be Teen Titans anymore (i.e. Cassie).

I thought Geoff made them relevant by creating the dynamic between the Young Justice additions (Robin, Superboy, Impulse, and Wonder Girl) with the 80s era Teen Titans (Beast Boy, Cyborg, Starfire, and Raven). The new recruits were obviously more dedicated to heroics than homework and if the adult heroes tried to stop them they would just find a way around them. So on the weekends the Teen Titans would get together. It was a weekend thing.

I've gone back and started reading the New Teen Titans stories and I have to say, I enjoy them a lot.

---

I think, ultimately, Teen Titans needs a reprieve. They haven't had a real concerted focus since Infinite Crisis. Disband the team. Give the kids a break. Give the title a year or two before regrouping.

---

I think DC is trying to recapture Geoff Johns' run by adding Raven and Beast Boy to the team as mentors.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[BallsMonkey]

Originally Posted by Mundungus

Geoff Johns' run got me in to Teen Titans. Yeah it was dark and moody at times but I felt the enthusiasm from the characters. I haven't picked it up since, because I feel like all these kids are miserable and don't really want to be Teen Titans anymore (i.e. Cassie).

I thought Geoff made them relevant by creating the dynamic between the Young Justice additions (Robin, Superboy, Impulse, and Wonder Girl) with the 80s era Teen Titans (Beast Boy, Cyborg, Starfire, and Raven). The new recruits were obviously more dedicated to heroics than homework and if the adult heroes tried to stop them they would just find a way around them. So on the weekends the Teen Titans would get together. It was a weekend thing.

I've gone back and started reading the New Teen Titans stories and I have to say, I enjoy them a lot.

---

I think, ultimately, Teen Titans needs a reprieve. They haven't had a real concerted focus since Infinite Crisis. Disband the team. Give the kids a break. Give the title a year or two before regrouping.

---

I think DC is trying to recapture Geoff Johns' run by adding Raven and Beast Boy to the team as mentors.

I wholeheartedly agree.