Joe Quesada's Failure as Editor-In-Chief

[Freakzeek]

Originally Posted by protonik

I'd argue that Ghost Rider ISN'T more popular than he's ever been. I'd even argue he was more popular in the 70s than now or even when Mackie was doing the book, which was EXTREMELY popular for the first 3-4 years. Ghost Rider is an icon in this industry, everybody KNOWS the image and that is because of his popularity in the 70s. Imagine walking into 7-11 or the drug store and walking up to that spinner rack and seeing your usual superhero fare and then... oh my god is that guy's head on fire? Is he riding a motorcycle? How cool is that? He's like the SIlver Surfer with balls! ... and then you read it... he's possessed by a fucking demon? A spirit of vengeance after making a deal with the devil? This is AWESOME.

A comics legend is born and explodes in popularity in spite of the book getting canned in the early 80s.

Ghost Rider has the really unfortunate luck of not being a super seller,he has all of the ingredient's of being great visual character with a pretty basic origin, Aaron's doing some great work in the current Gr book, but i still think they could realy do something cool with his character

[Sighphi]

Originally Posted by Freakzeek

Thank you, thank you thank you for pointing this out, why continue to buy a product that you don't like? I wouldn't keep buying cigarettes if they gave me lung cancer so why would I buy a comic I detest

There are different reasons, some people are real fans and want to have every issue, some people just want to know whats going on and they just skim through.

Your argument only works for the people that just spew PURE hate every time that subject is discussed yet they buy every issue and study it.

I dont really need to point out that there are different levels of fandom, do i?

[Robert318]

Originally Posted by Sighphi

Oh crap....
I dont follow Spider-man so i forgot...... OMD is the one that he made the deal with the Devil and BND is what came after, right?
Crap you are right, OMD suxxor and BND i guess with fine with a new goblin, venom, Kraven the Hunter, that people seem to be ok with.

Why am I not surprised? Not familiar with the source material except for what you read here, yet you seem to have an opinion on everything. Why not just stick to what you are actually reading and can form an opinion on for yourself rather than just regurgitate the negative opinions of others?

[protonik]

Originally Posted by Freakzeek

It's just a heavily believed to be rumor that he might leave after Blackest night

In spite of his statements to the contrary... LOL

[Freakzeek]

Originally Posted by protonik

In spite of his statements to the contrary... LOL

noticed how i said heavily believed rumors

[noh-varr]

Originally Posted by Sighphi

There are different reasons, some people are real fans and want to have every issue, some people just want to know whats going on and they just skim through.

Your argument only works for the people that just spew PURE hate every time that subject is discussed yet they buy every issue and study it.

I dont really need to point out that there are different levels of fandom, do i?

I will never for the life of me understand "real fans". If you don't like the creative direction, why keep buying it? Spider-Man will still be there when the direction changes, and the fans will have their sanity and be happy that they only read the good Spider-Man stories.

The ones who just HATE the story and keep buying are the most extreme of this, but those who aren't happy with the book and keep buying it out of some loyalty are on the same scale. If you're unahppy by a book that you're reading, stop reading it. Stop giving money to the people who are making you unhappy. And most importantly, STOP SHOWING THEM WITH MONEY THAT YOU APPROVE.

[protonik]

I think that Ghost Rider is like Blade, he will find more success in the films than in the comic books. I actually enjoyed the first film, some of the "plot holes" aren't the plot holes people want to think they are, they just didn't pay attention or think about what was going on. That said, I liked Daredevil too so take that for what it's worth.

[protonik]

Originally Posted by noh-varr

I will never for the life of me understand "real fans". If you don't like the creative direction, why keep buying it? Spider-Man will still be there when the direction changes, and the fans will have their sanity and be happy that they only read the good Spider-Man stories.

Not true. Sometimes the book is cancelled. See New Warriors. It got really bad during RObertson's run... horrible costumes etc. and I dropped it. Cancelled before a new writer could get on the book. I am afraid I will never see my precious Thunderbolts again. I love me some reformed Zemo...

[noh-varr]

Originally Posted by protonik

Not true. Sometimes the book is cancelled. See New Warriors. It got really bad during RObertson's run... horrible costumes etc. and I dropped it. Cancelled before a new writer could get on the book. I am afraid I will never see my precious Thunderbolts again. I love me some reformed Zemo...

Well my example Spider-Man will always be there lol. Alright good point. But most titles come back. There are very few series that have been printed and cancelled that have not come back in some form when it comes to Marvel and DC.

[Will.S]

Originally Posted by Gitaroo_Dude

Nah, I'm almost 100% positive that Johns dispelled that rumor in interviews. Said he still has plenty of stories to tell.

I'll have to wonder how a Johns-less DC will be given how he brings so much sales for the company as well as how he has his fingers in a lot of pies.

[Jake V]

Originally Posted by Will.S

I'll have to wonder how a Johns-less DC will be given how he brings so much sales for the company as well as how he has his fingers in a lot of pies.

The diamond top ten would be 9 marvel books and Batman and Robin.

[Freakzeek]

Originally Posted by Sighphi

There are different reasons, some people are real fans and want to have every issue, some people just want to know whats going on and they just skim through.

Your argument only works for the people that just spew PURE hate every time that subject is discussed yet they buy every issue and study it.

I dont really need to point out that there are different levels of fandom, do i?

[The Shadow]

double post

[The Shadow]

Originally Posted by Sighphi

No it's a fact that BND is a horrible thing.

No... no not at all.

Just in the minds of fans with no taste maybe.

Originally Posted by Sighphi

JMS told us how horrible it was that "Magic" didnt need an explanation.

Where have you been?

Originally Posted by JMS

To explain, here's the conversation I had with Marvel, in sum:

"So what does Mephisto do?" I ask.

"He makes everybody forget Peter's Spider-Man."

"Uh, huh. So Aunt May's still in the hospital --"

"No, he saves Aunt May."

"But if all he does is save her life and make everybody forget he's Spidey, she still has a scar on her midsection."

"No, he makes that go away too."

"Okay...:

"Then he wakes up in her house."

"The house that was burned down?"

"Right."

"But how --"

"Mephisto undoes that as well."

"Okay. And the guys who shot at Peter and May and were killed, they're alive too? Mephisto can bring guys back from the dead?"

"It's all part of the spell."

"And Doc Strange can't tell?"

"No,"

"And the newspaper articles? News footage?"

"Joe, it's been forgotten."

"I'm just asking is that stuff there or not there?"

"Not there. And Peter's web shooters are back."

"Is this the same spell or a different spell?"

"Same spell."

"How does making people forget he's Spidey bring back his web shooters?"

"It's magic, okay?"

"I see. And Harry's back."

"Right."

"And Mephisto does this too."

"Yep."

"So is Harry back from the dead, or has he been alive? If they ask him, hey Harry, what did you do last summer, will he remember? And the year before? And the year before? If he says they all went on a picnic two years ago, will they remember it?"

"It's --"

"Because if he now has a life he remembers, if he's not back from the dead, then you've changed the continuity you said you didn't want to change. Those are your only options: he was brought back from the dead, and there's a grave, and people remember him dying --"

"Mephisto changes THEIR memories too."

"-- or he's effectively been alive as far as our characters know, so he's been alive all along, so either way as far as our characters are concerned, continuity's been violated going back to 1971.

How do you explain that?"

"It's magic, we don't have to explain it."

What I wanna know is how does JMS have such a PERFECT recall for the whole conversation with the rather ambiguous 'Marvel'?

And what about Joe Q's response?

Originally Posted by Joe Q

Hey, Sean, I didn't say those words. But, here's the thing, from what you're saying here, it's seems to me you're splitting hairs. You can suspend belief for some things, but not others? I would completely agree with you if the Marvel U didn't have magical based characters. I mean the Scarlet Witch said "no more mutants," and magically millions of mutants lost their powers because of "it." "It" being "Chaos Magic." While there is no explanation for Mephsito's magic, is it any different than Doctor Strange's or Wanda's? Whenever they've done things, it seems that "it's magic" is all the explanation fans have ever needed. So, not to be nit picky, but I don't se the difference?

Plus I would like to point out that JMS wanted to retcon not only the marriage going back to 1987... but he wanted to go back and bring Gwen back too!!!

That would have altered continuity (AND removed the marriage) going back to 1971!!

Originally Posted by Sighphi

YOUR opinion is that he is more popular but the fact isnt that at all.

YOU'RE telling someone their OPINION isn't a FACT and yet you said above "No it's a fact that BND is a horrible thing"?

Oh, the bitter, bitter irony.

Originally Posted by Sighphi

A character CAN be ruined for a period of time but it CAN also come back and just because there are people still enjoy it, it doesnt mean that the character isn't ruined.

A character isn't EVER 'ruined'. You just don't like how he/she is being written... but they aren't ruined or the book would get canceled because of no sales.

LOL... again, passing off YOUR opinion as fact!

Originally Posted by Sighphi

There as people here crowing like you about the new Ghost Rider books, "This the most popular Ghost Rider has been, this is the best GR book ever, etc, etc." But they have NOTHING to compare it to because they DONT know what the character was before or how he was perceived before.

... what about the people who read it before?

[kitty_tc_69]

Originally Posted by Sighphi

There are different reasons, some people are real fans and want to have every issue, some people just want to know whats going on and they just skim through.

Your argument only works for the people that just spew PURE hate every time that subject is discussed yet they buy every issue and study it.

I dont really need to point out that there are different levels of fandom, do i?

We also don't know how many sell-throughs there are every month. In other words, we only know how many books the retailers are buying, we don't know how many of them are being bought at full price by end users and how many are ending up in back issue bins or the discount box in hopes that sometime they'll finally sell.

That said, there are clearly numerous fans who still buy Spider-Man and say good things about it. It would be foolish to claim that the title and it's current direction are universally despised. I doubt anyone here would try to make that claim.

On the other hand, it would be equally foolish to deny the numerous fans who have been against the current direction from the moment it was first leaked online and have remained against it ever since. Those people are voting with their dollars and not buying Spider-Man, as evidenced by it's less than stellar sales.

Clarity and honesty on both sides is appropriate.