Marvel U And 9-11

[Steven F.]

Originally Posted by fin5

somehow i feel this post is in poor taste
Whats the point of this post anyway how Marvel could stop 911

I agree with this.

I actually this thread is more in poor taste than anything else being discussed.

[LordSMVS]

Originally Posted by Brother Justin Crowe

Ex Machina thinks you're wrong.

Technically only half wrong.

[Westgarth J]

I would argue that Ex Machina is ghoulish first and foremost, with any storytelling merit overshadowed by the opportunistic premise - far more offensive than a thread on a nerd forum (I like it here a lot, but let's not fool ourselves) probing how much of the 'real' world needs to be represented in a fictional universe where a woman with squirrel powers can beat up genocidal super-terrorists and we don't bat an eyelid, because that - if you hadn't noticed by now - is how we roll.

You can probably argue in hindsight that ASM was also ill-judged in attempting to rationalise such an event in the context of a made-up funnybook where drag queens punch each other in the face for our entertainment, but people really wanted to make sense of the way the world had suddenly changed, and even though I think it's a sucky comic I can understand why it was made so close to the event. Someone raking over the same coals a couple of years later... not so much.

[jackolover]

Originally Posted by Freakzeek

So, there are at least 600,000 super heroes in New York according to Marvel alone.

Where do you get 600, 000 super heroes are in NY? Where do you get even 200,000 super heroes in Manhattan. I put it that there are only about 600 super heroes in the whole of the USA.

[Sighphi]

Originally Posted by jackolover

Where do you get 600, 000 super heroes are in NY? Where do you get even 200,000 super heroes in Manhattan. I put it that there are only about 600 super heroes in the whole of the USA.

I think he is counting basically any powered person.

[jackolover]

Originally Posted by Sighphi

Except for the fact that the second plane hit 15 minutes after the first and 30 minutes after that the Pentagon was hit.

Some how all these people lost the kick @$$ fast traveling speeds, teleportation, super jets, etc, etc, etc!!!!!

Missing the first plane was ok but the rest nooooo.

Marvel should've just have ignored it.

I'm more inclined to think the super heroes are to be considered just like ordinary citizens. They assume the planes run on time, in safe skies. Nobody looks up to see what is going on with transport, like planes buses and trains. They are just there. When one plane hit a building, it's a tragedy. The second plane may ring alarm bells, and have MJ running down the street shouting, "We're being attacked. It's war"!!!! Then the Armed Forces kick into gear, but any world war involving armed forces, only, is totally taboo for super humans to deal with. You have to consider them as non-combatants, (with the exception of Fury and Rogers, and few others participating), but not controlling the war. Super heroes were never designed as the excuse to win wars, at least not as far as the comic companies are concerned. As far as the evil scheming governments depicted in comics, yes they were, but as a philosophical concept that is based on reality, real War and super heroes are immiscible.

[jackolover]

Originally Posted by Expletive Deleted

Why haven't Reed Richards', Black Panther's, and Hank Pym's inventions changed the world? Why is society not fundamentally altered by the presence of superhumans, aliens, and gods? And so on and so forth. In spite of every reference to how legal procedure works differently in a world of masked vigilantes or attempts to expand the mutant-as-minority metaphor to include full-blown mutant culture, Marvel is fundamentally invested in keeping their setting "real."

I'm not sure this concept has been looked at before, but isn't there proprietary ideas involved with those 3 persons? And isn't there another problem of, if you do phase in Giant Man and Dimension doorways, how will that effect the evolution of mankind? Better to keep these things in the hands of the inventor, and not have everyone flying around like the Beetle. As it is, there are enough mad scientists around who have have these spectacular inventions, that the authorities have to deal with, let alone the "good guys". I think it's a matter of the danger of flowing on hyper-tech to the public. I think the Armed Forces have a limited access, but that didn't save Flash Thompson when he lost both legs in Middle East.

Maybe the super heroes are just selfish with their tech?

[Sighphi]

After the firs plane hit there should've been a good number of folks there trying to help the people stuck in the upper part with no chance at escaping.

[CYOTI]

^Which is why I lean towards it being an inside job in the MU.

[jackolover]

Originally Posted by Sighphi

After the firs plane hit there should've been a good number of folks there trying to help the people stuck in the upper part with no chance at escaping.

Can't see the flaw in that argument. After Stamford the place was crawling with Super Heroes. Maybe it had something to do with Firefighting procedure, that the actual heroes get first go.

[Expletive Deleted]

Originally Posted by jackolover

I'm not sure this concept has been looked at before, but isn't there proprietary ideas involved with those 3 persons? And isn't there another problem of, if you do phase in Giant Man and Dimension doorways, how will that effect the evolution of mankind? Better to keep these things in the hands of the inventor, and not have everyone flying around like the Beetle. As it is, there are enough mad scientists around who have have these spectacular inventions, that the authorities have to deal with, let alone the "good guys". I think it's a matter of the danger of flowing on hyper-tech to the public. I think the Armed Forces have a limited access, but that didn't save Flash Thompson when he lost both legs in Middle East.

Maybe the super heroes are just selfish with their tech?

And those are all post-facto rationalizations for not upsetting the status quo.

[volrath50]

*shrug* The obvious answer is they had to have it happen.

Either way, there was what, 15 minutes between the first and second plane. Factoring in time needed to get contacted about it, and travel time, and the fact that there's only a limited number of people that really could do anything about it on such short notice, it could happen. Sentry was in jail or forgot everything at the time, dunno who else could single-handedly stop it. One could just make the retcon that those people slept in or were occupied in Latveria or something.

How was it dealt with in DC? Superman has a much worse excuse, easily being able to make a short Metropolis->NY flight, and having stopped Airplanes before. Plus, he's a reporter, so he'd have heard about it quickly.

Actually, that reminds me, when I was reading the story of Tim Drake becoming Robin recently, there was a panel where Two-Face was considering destroying the WTC. Was sort of weird, in retrospect.

Either way, give it a few years, and the problem will solve itself. The "Age of Heroes" always started "about 10 years ago", so in 4 years or so, 2001 will be before anyone had any powers.

[jackolover]

Originally Posted by Expletive Deleted

And those are all post-facto rationalizations for not upsetting the status quo.

Yes. And this just says that Marvel didn't want to address this kind of scenario, and just treat all the pseudo-science of super heroes as a self-contained, isolated phenomena, that has no application for humans.

Somewhere along the line, Marvel had made the decision that pseudo-science will not have an effect on ordinary humans.

[Electric i]

Originally Posted by icctrombone

Doom is crying because Richards wasn't in the towers.

Yeah, I'm with you on this one.

Doom is perfectly fine having a knock-down, drag-out battle with Terrax the Tamer in the middle of Manhattan Island (Pop. 3 MILLION), but he is going to cry because of an act of politically motivated violence?

GTFOOH.

We are constantly told Doom is a genius, yet he cannot make the logical leap that just possibly it's a BAD IDEA to engage in battle in an area where the population density is about 15,000 PER SQUARE MILE?

Did the idea ever cross his mind that just possibly there might be a few civilians nearby? You know, non-superhumans who just might get killed by exploding gas mains, thrown automobiles, etc all of which are caused by DOCTOR DOOM ATTACKING SOMEONE?!

What, does he think that the Baxter Building is completely unoccupied except for the FF? So all those times he attacked it he gave ample time for it to be evacuated?

Whatever.


Edit:

The battle with Terrax the Tamer was pretty cool, btw. Especially the part where Doom performs a mind-switch WITH AN INNOCENT BYSTANDER to save himself from being killed.