Why doesnt Batman feel bad about all the deaths he allows?

[Chad]

I do think he should address the problem of the revolving door and fix it. Is there a comic that explains why he doesn't address this problem? Batman should take it upon himself to take all those resources of his and create a secret prison like Guantanamo Bay to keep the Rouge's who succeed in finding their way out of Gotham's prisons. It's a more logical recourse that doesn't require him to compromise his morality and isn't a far cry from his "break the law the defend it" stance". I mean he breaks several other laws to safeguard Gotham. Why not take on the task of imprisoning them.[/QUOTE]

A recent issue of Tec had Batman drug Ra's Al Ghul and drop him off at Arkham while disguided as a doctor. His instructions were to keep the inmate alive but constantly medicated so that he was effectively comatose.

As well in an early adventure, Batman attempted to kidnap the Joker and take him to a neurosurgeon for a lobotomy.

Of course, neither can be done properly when dealing with recurring characters who aren't really allowed to change, still it is that middle ground.

[Xybernauts]

Originally Posted by Jared

Neither of those are as sure-fire as shooting the chopper, and both still run the risk of killing the guys in the chopper. In fact, messing with the pilot or the rotors could send it out of control, crashing anywhere. At least if you blow it up you have a pretty good idea of where it's coming down.

I think the Spectre thing was in Justice League at least ten years ago, but it may have been Ostrander's Spectre run. It's also possibly I'm totally mistaking something from a fanfic or a forum.

As for the imprisonment thing, the JLA and Superman have put villains in the Phantom Zone, why doesn't Bats try that on the Joker?

Is this the comic.



I found it on http://comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=995

It's the only one I could find with Batman, Spectre, and John Ostrander.

The Spectre (1992) - #51
"A Savage Innocence"
DC Comics

Change this cover
or add a variant Writer(s):
John Ostrander

Penciller(s):
Tom Mandrake

Inker(s):
Tom Mandrake

Colorist(s):
Carla Feeny

Letterer(s):
Todd Klein

Editor(s):
Dan Raspler

Cover Artist(s):
John Bolton

Cover Date: March 1997
Cover Price: US $2.25

Issue Tagline: None.

Format: Color; Standard Comic Issue

Characters:
Batman (03 - Post-Crisis)
Spectre (02 - Jim Corrigan)

[Jared]

I think that's it. It looks like someone over in this thread remember that story better than me.

[carabas]

Originally Posted by Xybernauts

Actually he could use his grapple gun a shoot the cable into the helicopter rotors possibly causing copter to fall from the sky or use a flash grenade and throw it at the windshield of the helicopter temporarily blinding the pilot.

Causing the helicoper to crash will still most likely kill the crew (notto mention the people it crashes on). and a helicopter with a blinded pilot in the middle of a city full of skyscrapers? Oh dear... That's going to be ugly.

[Mat001]

Originally Posted by ThreeDays

It wasn't implied that Norman is immortal. All he said is that the Goblin formula gave him a healing factor. Even then, though, it's obviously not even as good as Wolverine's, because there was still a huge scar on Norman's chest seven years later.

Besides, if his entire body was burned up (which it was; we see him burning up first to just his head, which itself then burns up), there shouldn't have been anything to initiate or assist in regeneration, right? Sure, Wolverine's been written to come back from being burned down to a skeleton, but Norman's healing factor can't be on that same level if it leaves scars even after seven years.

Yet, we see Norman alive not long after the final battle in the extended ending of "Revelations" and he was fine and dandy by the time he resurfaced. He's still around. So while he's not immortal, he can regenerate from several pumpkin bombs going off.

Besides, I don't think we've ever seen Wolverine completely vaporized (bones were always left at least), as in this case. I doubt even Logan would come back from that.

He only came back from that because of his brain, which was protected when he was incinerated in Wolverine #43, volume 3.

[smartalek]

Originally Posted by IamBATFAN

Another thing to consider here is that police officers are given the order to use "lethal force" as a last resort, using "lethal force" doesnt = license to kill. Lethal force means drawing their weapons to incapacitate a perp, shooting him in the leg or arms, etc. Ending a perps life isnt their top priority. If it can be handled in the least violent manner possible the better, even if that includes a serial or mass murderer. Even when police officers are feeling threatened they hesitate to pull the trigger and when they do they arent aiming for the heart or the head.

Obviously having the Joker around is good for business if your DC so they aint gonna kill him. In real life the Joker would've been executed decades ago.

If Batman ever killed anyone on purpose in all his right senses, the pain, guilt and resentment he'd feel towards himself would probably lead him to suicide because he would have failed.
Bruce Wayne however would live on but probably isolated from civilization for fear that the Batman would want to come out again.

There is no real such thing as "shoot to wound". That's a Hollywood myth. As someone pointed out, they shoot for centre of mass. shooting someone' arm or leg has a good chance of killing someone anyways. When in a crisis situation, adrenaline hits and tunnel vision sets in, no one is shooting someone's gun out of their hands, or shooting a shoulder to stop them from shooting. It would be more dangerous to go for a "wounding" shot.

[nepenthes]

you guys are still pretending that the revolving door is like some kind of real problem batman needs to fix.or should be addressed by editirs with some new apprach to daeling with villains.

you get this is a comic book right?

[ThreeDays]

Originally Posted by Mat001

Yet, we see Norman alive not long after the final battle in the extended ending of "Revelations" and he was fine and dandy by the time he resurfaced. He's still around. So while he's not immortal, he can regenerate from several pumpkin bombs going off.

I never read the TPB of "Revelations," so I haven't seen that extended ending, I'm afraid.

In any case, Spider-Man wouldn't have known about that ending at the time he was throwing the pumpkin bombs. He would still only know about the time Norman almost died before. There shouldn't have been any reason Peter wouldn't think he would kill or had killed Norman with those pumpkin bombs.

He even said "Goodbye, Green Goblin" in retort to Norman's "Goodbye, Peter" (Norman said this right after announcing that he was going in for the kill). For that matter, the last of the bombs that went off while Norman was burning up smacked into the street near the cab where Ben fell, surrouned by dozens of onlookers. Had there been anything left of him as the story was originally written, it stands to reason someone would have noticed.

[Mat001]

Originally Posted by ThreeDays

I never read the TPB of "Revelations," so I haven't seen that extended ending, I'm afraid.

In any case, Spider-Man wouldn't have known about that ending at the time he was throwing the pumpkin bombs. He would still only know about the time Norman almost died before. There shouldn't have been any reason Peter wouldn't think he would kill or had killed Norman with those pumpkin bombs.

All Peter cared about was getting rid of the bombs and Norman left himself open. Also, given that Norman had just bragged about a healing factor, it was obvious that if the glider wouldn't kill him then the bombs wouldn't. He just wanted to hurt him.

He even said "Goodbye, Green Goblin" in retort to Norman's "Goodbye, Peter" (Norman said this right after announcing that he was going in for the kill). For that matter, the last of the bombs that went off while Norman was burning up smacked into the street near the cab where Ben fell, surrouned by dozens of onlookers. Had there been anything left of him as the story was originally written, it stands to reason someone would have noticed.

Have the book right before me. Here's what happens. Norman says goodbye. Peter responds out of anger by hitting him with the pumpkin bombs. Norman then says the following.

Green Goblin: "You think this ends it, Spider-Man? Not a chance! Never! Never! NEVER! You think you can kill me? You can never kill me! I'm the thing that haunts your dreams--Gives you no peace! And I will be back. I will always be back!"

All that's left is the smoke as you noted. In the extended epilogue, I believe it shows that Normal climbing up out of some rubble. I think he might've fallen through the street. I don't own the trade either, but I've looked at the end once. A good while back. Anyway, all there was was smoke which covered where Norman went down. So Marvel was leaving the door open for more, but didn't commit themselves until they went to print the trade.

[ThreeDays]

Originally Posted by Mat001

All Peter cared about was getting rid of the bombs and Norman left himself open. Also, given that Norman had just bragged about a healing factor, it was obvious that if the glider wouldn't kill him then the bombs wouldn't. He just wanted to hurt him.

To be fair, Norman was planning to blow up the top floor of the Daily Bugle with all those "high explosive pumpkin bombs." That sounds more likely to kill than a glider to me.

We may have to agree to disagree on that, but to me, something expected to kill a room full of people sounds more likely to kill a single individual than something that would probably just be capable of killing one.

Originally Posted by Mat001

Have the book right before me. Here's what happens. Norman says goodbye. Peter responds out of anger by hitting him with the pumpkin bombs. Norman then says the following.

Green Goblin: "You think this ends it, Spider-Man? Not a chance! Never! Never! NEVER! You think you can kill me? You can never kill me! I'm the thing that haunts your dreams--Gives you no peace! And I will be back. I will always be back!"

Again, that's something that happened after Peter had smacked him with the bombs, so it doesn't bear on what Peter expected to happen at the time he did it.

In any case, that's the usual kind of death spiel you hear from bad guys who know they're going down. Fiction across various media is full of that.

Originally Posted by Mat001

All that's left is the smoke as you noted. In the extended epilogue, I believe it shows that Normal climbing up out of some rubble. I think he might've fallen through the street. I don't own the trade either, but I've looked at the end once. A good while back. Anyway, all there was was smoke which covered where Norman went down. So Marvel was leaving the door open for more, but didn't commit themselves until they went to print the trade.

If he had been shown to have just fallen through the street, I could buy his return a lot better — and even would have expected it. But he was shown on-panel being incinerated — and by bombs that were against his chest when they went off, and were expected to kill a room full of people without being right against their bodies.

I don't doubt that you're right that his healing factor would be the explanation for his survival if one were ever given, but it just seems like b.s. to me when he came back from a death more extreme than the stuff Wolverine and his utterly broken healing factor go through.

Whatever the case, I thank you for this discussion. It's been interesting.