Batman 1 vs. The Man Who Laughs.

[Vidocq]

Originally Posted by Retro315

Yeah. I'd forgotten about Robin, because Joker steals the show, even in my memory.

If somebody found a way to re-tell that, sans Robin (which couldn't be too hard), it'd be solid.

That's pretty much The Man who laughs.


I like Batman 1 better but I'm a sucker for the earliest Batman. Storywise I like the Radio thing too. You get a threat message from a Guy calling himself THE JOKER, That screams Hoax. Then The Joker presents himself to you, a white face, a just too damn wide smile and my favorite part of the description Eyes full of hate. I also liked the whole Freaks vs Mob subplot. Their is also his third appereance in Batman 2, were he comes back from the coma he was left in The Joker Returns, The Mob decides to side with him (Now that he pretty much killed the bosses), The Cat(Woman) met him and saved Robin's life when the Joker was about to kill him with a Flail and Batman was planning to lobotomize Joker. CLASSIC.

[rick]

You guys are confusing The Man Who Laughs, which features Conrad Veidt as a circus sideshow performer who has had a smile carved into his face, and which was indeed the influence for the Joker, with 1926's, The Bat, which is a film about a bat masked killer who announces his crimes over a radio before he commits them and whose plot was basicly used for that first Joker story in Batman #1.

[Vidocq]

Originally Posted by rick

You guys are confusing The Man Who Laughs, which features Conrad Veidt as a circus sideshow performer who has had a smile carved into his face, and which was indeed the influence for the Joker, with 1926's, The Bat, which is a film about a bat masked killer who announces his crimes over a radio before he commits them and whose plot was basicly used for that first Joker story in Batman #1.

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http://www.dccomics.com/dcu/graphic_novels/?gn=10561

[rick]

Originally Posted by Vidocq

http://www.dccomics.com/dcu/graphic_novels/?gn=10561

Gotcha'

No wonder I couldn't figure out what the heck anyone was talking about.

[Lew Moxon]

Originally Posted by Vidocq

That's pretty much The Man who laughs.


I like Batman 1 better but I'm a sucker for the earliest Batman. Storywise I like the Radio thing too. You get a threat message from a Guy calling himself THE JOKER, That screams Hoax. Then The Joker presents himself to you, a white face, a just too damn wide smile and my favorite part of the description Eyes full of hate. I also liked the whole Freaks vs Mob subplot. Their is also his third appereance in Batman 2, were he comes back from the coma he was left in The Joker Returns, The Mob decides to side with him (Now that he pretty much killed the bosses), The Cat(Woman) met him and saved Robin's life when the Joker was about to kill him with a Flail and Batman was planning to lobotomize Joker. CLASSIC.

I am a sucker for those stories too, I only wish Alfred had been invented earlier, because Bill Finger was right, Bruce needs someone to talk to. But a ten year old kid is not the answer.

I actually like "The Cat" better than Catwoman.

I see the Cat as a master of manipulation, and disguise, who is known by everyone in the underworld, but is a kind of whispered name. She's robbed countless people, but no one besides "Selina Kyle" herself knows that there even is a Cat, or whether she's just an urban legend used to explain unsolved roberries in Gotham.

[jgiannantoni05]

I really liked Brubaker's MWL. For modern continuity, it's the best take on Joker's first encounter with Batman. LOTDK 50 and Cousin Melvin really did not work for me.

People forget too, that the Englehart/Rogers Laughing Fish story is also a modern version of Batman #1. Though not Batman's first encounter with Joker, Batman #1's influence on the plot should be readily apparent.
________
M73

[Lew Moxon]

Originally Posted by jgiannantoni05

I really liked Brubaker's MWL. For modern continuity, it's the best take on Joker's first encounter with Batman. LOTDK 50 and Cousin Melvin really did not work for me.

People forget too, that the Englehart/Rogers Laughing Fish story is also a modern version of Batman #1. Though not Batman's first encounter with Joker, Batman #1's influence on the plot should be readily apparent.

I think Laughing Fish is a much better handling of the story than MWL. Even though it isn't the Joker's first appearance.

I guess, having read Batman 1, I wrote a story in my head, and MWL didn't mesh well with it.

[Tanjint]

I think it's funny that some think MWL suffers from trying to tie in with year one whereas my only real complaint about MWL is that it doesn't tie in well with year one and I heard it was supposed to

-T

[Chad]

Originally Posted by Lew Moxon

The Joker almost kills Robin, too. There's an awesome panel, when The Joker, dressed as a police officer, clubs Robin, as Robin breaks into his hideout.

Robin repays the favour at the end of the story by kicking the Joker off a building. He survives only because Batman decides to catch him.

I've also never understood the scene where Dick asks Bruce "Why don't we go after this Joker guy?" to which Batman responds "The time isn't ripe." I've never understood why the Joker having already killed several men isn't his number one priority.

Anyway, while I've never read The Man Who Laughs, I can't imagine that it compares with Batman 1. This was Bill Finger, Jerry Robinson, and Bob Kane at their finest. They nailed the Joker the first time - the Joker venom, his look, the theatrics, the gimmick of announcing who he's going to kill and having already done it, this story is perfect. It's also interesting to see the Joker take no interest in Batman - to him he's a nuisance. In their later battles it was always the Joker who would completely disregard his own safety by taking the fight to the top of a contruction site in the middle of a storm or something, yet here it's Batman who's rushing into battle by leaping onto the Joker's speeding car and wrestling with the steering wheel or tossing him around with Robin from building to building as the Joker declares that Batman must be insane.

I don't want to put down The Man Who Laughs, but was this really a story that needed to be retold? What flaws did DC see with this story that made them decide to change it?

[Lew Moxon]

Originally Posted by Chad

Robin repays the favour at the end of the story by kicking the Joker off a building. He survives only because Batman decides to catch him.

I've also never understood the scene where Dick asks Bruce "Why don't we go after this Joker guy?" to which Batman responds "The time isn't ripe." I've never understood why the Joker having already killed several men isn't his number one priority.

Anyway, while I've never read The Man Who Laughs, I can't imagine that it compares with Batman 1. This was Bill Finger, Jerry Robinson, and Bob Kane at their finest. They nailed the Joker the first time - the Joker venom, his look, the theatrics, the gimmick of announcing who he's going to kill and having already done it, this story is perfect. It's also interesting to see the Joker take no interest in Batman - to him he's a nuisance. In their later battles it was always the Joker who would completely disregard his own safety by taking the fight to the top of a contruction site in the middle of a storm or something, yet here it's Batman who's rushing into battle by leaping onto the Joker's speeding car and wrestling with the steering wheel or tossing him around with Robin from building to building as the Joker declares that Batman must be insane.

I don't want to put down The Man Who Laughs, but was this really a story that needed to be retold? What flaws did DC see with this story that made them decide to change it?

I understand the concept of modernizing the story, I just didn't like the result as much as the original, as to the "time isn't ripe" that bothered me too, until I realized something, Batman is all about prep time, he isn't prepared enough yet to deal with the Joker at that point.

There are some golden age Joker stories that I like to think should exist in current continuity somehow, espicially the one where the Joker competes with Catwoman over the same Jewels, with Joker killing her victims before she enters the room.

[Nefarius]

Batman 1 is my favourite Batman issue.It's Joker at his finest.I also enjoy MWL as the true modernisation of this story(screw Lovers and Madmen and LotDK)>The strong points of Brubaker's story is that he connects both Year One and the Killing Joke with his story,but in a clever way.Also i love Mahnke's Joker.The main weakness is that Joker has a motive after all(revenge) and we don't see the freaks vs the mob subplot of the original story.Today,many writers ignore that Joker in his first appearence was a serial killer but he was also a thief.It's funny how the Dark Knight used many of the Golden Age stories for it's script.Joker in TDK was a bank robber like Joker in comics(who started as a thief stealing Claridge Jewel and killing it's owner with the Joker-venom).He has a bad relation with the mob and even the last fight at the construction site remind me the end of Batman 1(where Robin kicked Joker and he falls from a construction site only to be saved from Batman).