Punisher vs Hawkeye

[HulkSmash666]

Frank Castle takes on Clint Barton in a battle to the death.

Punisher is armed with twin .45's, M-16 w/M-203 grenade launcher, grenades and bazooka.

Clint has his full array of trick arrows and standard arrows.

Fight takes place in New York City.

1- 24 hours prep.
2- No prep-time.
3- Hand to Hand only.

[Pendaran]

Interesting. Though potentially they double kill each other with area exploding weapons in fights with weapons.

Bizarre stint as Ronin aside, I couldn't really call the hand to hand fight, if only for that Hawkeye's overall hand to hand capacity is somewhat nebulous.

[HulkSmash666]

Originally Posted by Pendaran

Interesting. Though potentially they double kill each other with area exploding weapons in fights with weapons.

Bizarre stint as Ronin aside, I couldn't really call the hand to hand fight, if only for that Hawkeye's overall hand to hand capacity is somewhat nebulous.

Take out the explosives, and give them just bullets and hunting tip arrows?

Also, maybe some ABC logic is in order to gauge both Frank's and Clint's hand to hand skills.

Both have fought USAgent. IMO, Frank did better than Clint did. And Clint was out for blood, whereas Frank just wanted Walker off his back. Clint was hospitalised, IIRC, where as Frank went on to team up with Walker.

What about fights with Captain America? Both have fought him, IIRC, but I don't know who had a better showing.

[Pendaran]

Also, maybe some ABC logic is in order to gauge both Frank's and Clint's hand to hand skills.

Both have fought USAgent. IMO, Frank did better than Clint did. And Clint was out for blood, whereas Frank just wanted Walker off his back. Clint was hospitalised, IIRC, where as Frank went on to team up with Walker.

Ehhh, both should have been straight up destroyed by USAgent hand to hand honestly, I wouldn't count that for much of anything. Captain America needed fight of the multiple handicaps to take Walker out.

Even without that last detail, class 10+ish brick with better combat training than either should have just destroyed them. Neither of them could take the guy or anything, but it still should have just been total destruction.

[HulkSmash666]

Originally Posted by Pendaran

Ehhh, both should have been straight up destroyed by USAgent hand to hand honestly, I wouldn't count that for much of anything. Captain America needed fight of the multiple handicaps to take Walker out.

Even without that last detail, class 10+ish brick with better combat training than either should have just destroyed them. Neither of them could take the guy or anything, but it still should have just been total destruction.

I agree, and in the Hawkeye/USAgent fight, Clint WAS completely wrecked by Agent, who was holding back for most of it, knowing full well he'd kill Clint if he opened up him.

The Punisher/USAgent fight wasn't all that much of a fight, but they did trade a few punches and Frank was none the worst for wear. But, yeah, USAgent should destroy Frank in hand to hand.

[Pendaran]

Originally Posted by HulkSmash666

I agree, and in the Hawkeye/USAgent fight, Clint WAS completely wrecked by Agent, who was holding back for most of it, knowing full well he'd kill Clint if he opened up him.

The Punisher/USAgent fight wasn't all that much of a fight, but they did trade a few punches and Frank was none the worst for wear. But, yeah, USAgent should destroy Frank in hand to hand.

So yeah, I dunno on hand to hand. I mean, even as Ronin, Clint uses weapons, just.. not the weapons he should often have any business using, depending on the issue.

Like I say, nebulous.

[HulkSmash666]

Originally Posted by Pendaran

So yeah, I dunno on hand to hand. I mean, even as Ronin, Clint uses weapons, just.. not the weapons he should often have any business using, depending on the issue.

Like I say, nebulous.

I'm gonna go with Frank, I think. He's just more hardcore, and doesn't try to just hurt them or knock his opponents out, he tries to fuckin kill their arse. And his damage soak is insanely higher than Clint's.

With weapons, Frank is perhaps the best gunfighter on the planet, nd has some crazy accuracy feats to allow him to compete with Clint. He's also gonna be faster on the draw.

[hoboboxerjoe]

Punisher is the most dangerous human in the Marvel Universe. IF he is really wanting to kill him, believe me, he will. Frank is a top-notch sniper, and nearly the same level of marksman, moreso with a gun.

Frank arrays himself with a fully set of dragonskin bodyarmor, or his ussual set, either way, he stalks, stakes out, and uses tactics that Hawkeye has no idea a bout to bring him down.

Frank, but in an interesting fight, he might take an arrow through the shoulder. Hand-to-hand, Frank still wins. He is tougher than most think. He did kill the MU off after all :P (that last part was a joke, but Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe did have some good points)

[oldsmokey]

24 hours prep favors Frank, since Clint isn't known for that. Still, it isn't an overwhelming advantage since Frank isn't doing Batman-level things with his prep and Clint is no schlub. Slight majority to Frank.

No prep is a pretty even fight. Both are masters with their chosen weapons. 50/50.

Hand to hand is also a pretty evenly split. I don't think you could take Frank having a better showing than Clint against USAgent as proof, USAgent should utterly demolish both of them, as noted. Neither of them are top-level hand-to-hand fighters, but both are still very very good. I'd say 50/50 again, or a slight edge to Frank for better damage soak. I think Clint gets a bit underrated for his hand to hand, but that's a gut feeling.

[Pendaran]

Punisher is the most dangerous human in the Marvel Universe.

Doctor Doom would find that a more than moderately hilarious assertion.

but Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe did have some good points)

It certainly pointed out that Garth Ennis hates superhero comics and likes to underwrite the characters from them to job them as much as possible to make some pseudo edgy point, why sure.