War With New Krypton

[The Batman]

Originally Posted by Captain Smith

So who here has surveyed all the 100K Kryptonians to find out that none of them have equivalent moral values?

How many of them were out there doing what Superman does? I mean, if they'd all shared Superman's character, instead of breaking with the people of Earth they'd have worked with them to transform the planet into a paradise.

And if that is the case, that is my point. Superman's selling point is his personality and not being an unique hero with an unique origin - as once was the case.

It's always been both. It's still both. All those Kryptonians may share Superman's powers and planet of origin, but none of them share his past, his experiences, or his character.

It is a value judgement to like Supes as a literary figure because of personalty as compared to his original point of being almost unchallenged in power, an orphan, an alien in a strange land. I prefer the older ways.

But his character has always been what's really set him apart. To paraphrase WorstThingsUS quoting fictional Bill Clinton: It's never been his power, rather it's been how he chooses to use it. I don't think the older ways of the by-gone days are quite what you're remembering them to be. Look at a story like "The Feud Between Superman and Clark Kent!" from 1961 or 1962, the message of that story is that it's Superman's character, not his Kryptonian powers that make him the champion he is.

I feel it was a mistake to make him one of a swarm of equivalent beings and only special because some think he is a nice guy. I'm sure the head of the Salvation Army is just as moral.

Well, then why complain now?

He's been one of a swarm of equivalent beings long before those 100,000 Kryptonians showed up. Doesn't Batman's heroism diminish Superman's uniqueness? How about the Flash's speed? The Green Lantern's courage and willpower? Doomsday was able to fight Superman to the death, doesn't that make Superman less special?

Or, is there something else about Superman that makes him unique, even in a room full of other super-powered people?

[Captain Smith]

He wears red panties on the outside. That's about the level of the conversation.

Some of you worship him as some sort of unique personality. Having much experience in the real world - I think that is not such a defining feature. You can disagree.

Yes, his story line has been diluted. I opine that is a mistake for the development of a 'superman'. You can choose to feel differently.

Explorations of his character were in part set up because of his origin. If he was an earth boy who just drank some magic juice and got powers - a special part of his story would be gone. That part is gone now. But that's my opinion. You are welcome to regard Kal as the ultimate development of character.

[Mat001]

Originally Posted by meathead320

But cutting apart posts piece by piece and arguing with someone on almost every point does not change their opinion, and instead just looks like post badgering.

So, what do you personally like/dislike about the NK angle?

Do you wish it to stay in the solar system, and why?

I've no problems with "New Krypton" at all. As to wishing them to stay in Earth's solar system, I never said that they had to. I'm just saying that having them around doesn't change who Superman is. He's still his own person even in a world where there are other heroes, non Kryptonian, who are just as powerful as him. If Green Lantern or Black Adam can knock him out, then that says something about his power levels. He's not as unique in the power level department and hasn't been in a long time. If New Krypton stays in Earth's solar system, then I'd like to see how Clark deals with it before it's put to bed. If it's put away after the war, then that's also fine.

I'm not trying to badger anyone. I'm just pointing out that there's more to Superman than powers and abilities and that's what this storyline is exploring.

Originally Posted by Captain Smith

Nope, he is just a nice guy. Of which we have many. I know many real world altruistic, self-sacrificing folks. There are not comics about them.

But none who would go the distance he has as shown in "Krisis Of The Krimson Kryptonite", "Reign Of The Supermen", "Superman Vs Aliens", "Power Struggle", "Return To Krypton", "Back In Action" and "Superman & The Legion Of Super-Heroes". In the real world, there are things that humans can do, especially with the right kind of training. Superman doesn't have that kind of training. And he goes up against aliens, robots, metahumans and highly trained soldiers without his powers. Stuff that doesn't exist in our world. He still inspires people to greatness. Those stories show that Superman is just as important and unique without his powers as he is with them.

[Captain Smith]

That last paragraph makes no sense at all. I take it that you have not met really brave people with or without training who have made tremendous sacrifices at more risk to their lives than Superman has in most encounters. The average fireman or policeman rushes to danger much more vulnerable than Supes in most of his day. Talk to a vet who now has no legs but still struggles to get around in constant pain.

It's ok - if you want him as a personal paragon above all, that's your choice. But go read about some Medal of Honor winners before you say Supes is unique. You are kinda off the deep end on this.

Supes is brave, no doubt. He is not unique. The story line might be fun but it does fundamentally change Supes' place in the pantheon. That's the point and I don't think it added his particular character. You can disagree.

[The Batman]

Originally Posted by Captain Smith

He wears red panties on the outside. That's about the level of the conversation.

We've been trying to raise the bar, believe me we have. You're just not making it easy for us to do that.

Some of you worship him as some sort of unique personality. Having much experience in the real world - I think that is not such a defining feature. You can disagree.

Worship? All anyone's done is point out that even in a room full of super powered people, be they Kryptonians, Green Lanterns, Flashes, Martian Manhunters, Captains Marvel, Dark Knight Detectives, or Amazonian Peace Ambassadors, it's Superman's character that's going to set him apart and above. They're all good people, yes, but he's the best of them.

Yes, his story line has been diluted. I opine that is a mistake for the development of a 'superman'. You can choose to feel differently.

Explorations of his character were in part set up because of his origin. If he was an earth boy who just drank some magic juice and got powers - a special part of his story would be gone. That part is gone now. But that's my opinion. You are welcome to regard Kal as the ultimate development of character.

You're right that the Krypton parts of his origin are important, but they're not the entirety of his origin. The Kents and Smallville are just as important a part. It's the whole of his origin, the combination of the two -- Kryptonian heritage and the Kents' parentage -- that makes Superman unique, even if there are 100,000 other Kryptonians around.

That's the point of "World of New Krypton" and the point that you seem to keep missing.

[Mat001]

Originally Posted by Captain Smith

That last paragraph makes no sense at all. I take it that you have not met really brave people with or without training who have made tremendous sacrifices at more risk to their lives than Superman has in most encounters. The average fireman or policeman rushes to danger much more vulnerable than Supes in most of his day. Talk to a vet who now has no legs but still struggles to get around in constant pain.

Except those people are A) trained to do these things and B) are armed with weapons. You do not see an average person perform those feats on a regular basis. In the examples I listed, only once was Clark armed and that was after his resurrection. He had no formal training. And when I say average person, I'm talking about some guy who decides to go out and start doing the kinds of things Superman does without his powers.

It's ok - if you want him as a personal paragon above all, that's your choice. But go read about some Medal of Honor winners before you say Supes is unique. You are kinda off the deep end on this.

Supes is brave, no doubt. He is not unique. The story line might be fun but it does fundamentally change Supes' place in the pantheon. That's the point and I don't think it added his particular character. You can disagree.

Medal of Honor winners are often those who do these things for a living and are trained to do them. A fire fighter takes courses in safety and then how to function in a fire. They know what they're doing when they put their lives on the line, regardless of the risks. Same with police officers and soldiers. You don't see too many average joes without any of that, willing to do these things all the time, without some type of special aid. And Superman's unique characteristic is that he inspires people with his actions, with his confidence and his moral certainity. When he came back, Steel was uncertain if he was the real deal at first, but became confident that he was when he watched him do the types of things that Superman would do.

[Corporate Gifts]

Suppose The Kryptons are going to fight the war on the Planet Vegeta and Planet Krypton has not exploded yet. (this way there are no chunks of kryptonite laying around to weaken the Kryptonians)

[ffaristocrat]

Originally Posted by The Batman

Or, is there something else about Superman that makes him unique, even in a room full of other super-powered people?

Which is the real point of World of New Krypton in the end.