Can the Hulk pick up Thor's hammer?

[Hrungr]

I seem to recall one other instance where brute strength overcame Odin's enchantment which occurred in the Starmasters series. I can't remember who it was but he lifted Beta Ray Bill's hammer, then was killed by the hammer moments later.

I think the Hulk could do it, but he would have to become just foaming-at-the-mouth mad (eg. Worldbreaker) in order to do it.

[Jack Flag]

Hulk tried to lift it in issue 3 of the Avengers. But he couldn't, no matter how much he tried.
Wonder-woman picked it up in Marvel vs DC, and she got a hot outfit.
I would like to see Spider-man with Thor powers.

Spider-man is probably no longer worthy of the Odin power after his deal with Mephisto (if he ever was).

[supamike]

No its not based on physical strength.You gotta possess the right moral character.Like when cap did it.

[StoneGold]

No its not based on physical strength.You gotta possess the right moral character.Like when cap did it.

It's not even that. It's just worthiness. Whatever the hell that means.


The thing with Cap was just to show to Thor that Cap was in the right to have ditched the costume when the whole John Walker thing went down, anyway.

[seekquaze]

i know about the enchantment on thor's hammer and that you have to prove yourself worthy in order to pick it up but if the hulk gets mad enough he will get to the point where he will overpower the enchantment and break its rules, also in the movie the ultimate avengers hulk picks up thors hammer showing that he can break any rules or limitations weither they be science, magic, god or human rules, also if u watch the look on thor's face in the movie, when hulk does pick it up hes like "wtf is goin on here?!?!, your not supposed to beable to do that!"

The Ultimate Avengers film is flat out wrong. That is the only way to describe it. Ultimate Thor's hammer has never had that enchantment on it. The hammer itself can only control the weather. Even if it did beings as strong as the Hulk or stronger have tried to lift it over the years and failed. Overall, Thor has been the Wonder Man of both the Ultimate Universe and Marvel Animation so to use anything from those as a basis is a foolish mistake.

Do you have a source (ie - specific comic evidence or comments from writers) to support that? It has been shown that mortals are not simply "brushed aside" by the Gods, even the Elder ones (eg - Avengers fought the Greek Gods, including Zeus (who should be roughly on par with Odin, afaik) after Hercules was almost killed by the Masters of Evil).

Yes, they were fighting Zeus but not hurting him. Earlier he had knocked out all of the Avengers and a group of gods with a single blast without any effort. He was not trying to kill them at that point. During the battle against Zeus not even Thor was able to hurt or visiable effect the skyfather. A wet Namor and She-Hulk both tried attacking him and he felled each with one blow. The only reason Thor was still alive was he could not die due to a curse from Hela and Zeus was not in the right mind to understand and counter this. Even Photon/Pulsar//Captain Marvel's most powerful attack did not move Zeus at all. Thor stated she had hurt Zeus more than the cloud gatherer let on, but again Zeus looks completely unharmed and still is more than enough to take on everyone including his own son Hercules fully healed.

Odin has battled Thor several times without flinching and once took out the Silver Surfer with one shot. Thanos was able to stand up to him once, but even then it was clear Odin would eventually kill the Mad Titan. And I think most people would agree Thanos operates on a whole other, higher level then the Hulk.

So there is evidence that the skyfathers are a good deal above top-tiers. It has been speculated that in recent years this is changing as they are watered down, but in the past at least they were more powerful. Even the more powerful gods like Pluto, Neptune, and Loki require other top-tiers to defeat.

[mdg1]

I seem to recall one other instance where brute strength overcame Odin's enchantment which occurred in the Starmasters series. I can't remember who it was but he lifted Beta Ray Bill's hammer, then was killed by the hammer moments later.

That was a special case. Asgard was being affected by the Worldengine crisis, and so Bill was (temporarily) empowered by a mix of Odin's magic and the Power Cosmic. It apparently wore off at some point, as he was back to his usual Asgardian self the next time he showed up.

Really, there seems to be three main classes of folks who have lifted the hammer (not counting early appearances, when the rules were still being worked out).

The first type picked up the hammer because they were deemed worthy, and were transformed into a variant of Thor. This group includes Bill, Red Norvell, Dargo, and Wonder Woman (among others).

The second group lifted the hammer in a situation where Thor was in danger, and needed help. Cap and Eric Masterson qualify here, although Eric seems to be a special case, as he was deemed worthy enough to weild the hammer _later_.

The final group are those who are mystically strong enough to overcome the enchantment. Odin was the first, of course, but Tiwaz had no trouble with it either. Arguably, Power Gem Drax also qualifies, but not due to his physical strength.

(Whether machines can do it has been inconsistent over the years, so I didn't give them a group)

Based on these criteria, I don't think Hulk could lift the hammer. But his SON might be able to, thanks to the Old Power.

[StoneGold]

The Ultimate Avengers film is flat out wrong. That is the only way to describe it.

It's not that it's flat-out wrong, it's just neither 616 nor Ultimate. It's its own thing. But it doesn't have any bearing on anything that we're talking about, either.

[stevehim]

Even if it did beings as strong as the Hulk or stronger have tried to lift it over the years and failed.

Though I agree with your point about the Ultimate Avengers cartoon not counting, as it isn't canon (though neither was the comic where Wonder Woman lifted it), I have to ask who you are classifying as "stronger than the Hulk."

Yes, they were fighting Zeus but not hurting him. Earlier he had knocked out all of the Avengers and a group of gods with a single blast without any effort. He was not trying to kill them at that point. During the battle against Zeus not even Thor was able to hurt or visiable effect the skyfather. A wet Namor and She-Hulk both tried attacking him and he felled each with one blow. The only reason Thor was still alive was he could not die due to a curse from Hela and Zeus was not in the right mind to understand and counter this. Even Photon/Pulsar//Captain Marvel's most powerful attack did not move Zeus at all. Thor stated she had hurt Zeus more than the cloud gatherer let on, but again Zeus looks completely unharmed and still is more than enough to take on everyone including his own son Hercules fully healed.

Odin has battled Thor several times without flinching and once took out the Silver Surfer with one shot. Thanos was able to stand up to him once, but even then it was clear Odin would eventually kill the Mad Titan. And I think most people would agree Thanos operates on a whole other, higher level then the Hulk.

If we're talking about Thanos sans Infinity Gems, I would agree that Odin would eventually probably kill him, or at least incapacitate him (with the Infinity Gems, Odin wouldn't stand a chance of even lasting 5 seconds), though I don't agree that Thanos is on a whole other higher level than the Hulk...at least in terms of raw strength (I'd actually argue that the Hulk surpasses the Titan).

In any case, I only brought up Zeus to show that it is not simply a case of "wave your hands and vanquish your lesser foes," not to say that the Avengers would have defeated him. And you can't really use things like that to determine power anyway, as the less powerful are often victorious. Not to mention that I could say the Hulk did the same and more, taking on the Avengers (both East and West Coast) and Doc Sampson all at once, even prior to what he accomplished in WW Hulk.

I would also like to ask where you'd rank a being like the Champion of the Universe in relation to Odin. While he refused to continue fighting the Hulk, I feel there is decent evidence that the Hulk could defeat him.

So there is evidence that the skyfathers are a good deal above top-tiers. It has been speculated that in recent years this is changing as they are watered down, but in the past at least they were more powerful. Even the more powerful gods like Pluto, Neptune, and Loki require other top-tiers to defeat.

No question, the Skyfathers are above any mortals, Hulk included (though still below cosmic entities), but that does not equate to 100% win factor, nor does it equate to their spells automatically standing up to top-tiered mortals (Gods have been defeated by mortals plenty of times in the past)...I assume by "top-tiers" you are referring to the strongest mortals, of which the Hulk is easily in contention for topping the list.

In any case, I am still not saying that the Hulk could lift Thor's hammer...it hasn't happened, so we don't know, and as such we have to assume that the enchantment would hold up. What I am saying is that:

A. If anyone could (non-cosmically) lift the hammer without being deemed worthy, it would likely be the Hulk.

B. If the Hulk were to lift the hammer, it would not require retconning since the stated "theoretical limitless" of his strength could conceivably be argued to surpass the enchantment. I'm also not sure the worthiness has ever been clearly defined (though I may be mistaken), and so summoning enough strength to approach said enchantment could be construed by the writers as "worthiness."

and C. The Hulk is meant to be/portrayed as the strongest mortal in the Marvel Universe (once more, ignoring special case where powers are boosted by cosmic energies, etc), and also possesses strength equal to or surpassing many immortals, including many of the Gods (eg - Thor, Hercules, Loki, pretty much any average Asgardian or Olympian, etc).

[Uxas]

I'd say yes, but only if Hulk got so strong that he somehow shattered the general rules of the time/space continuum, reality and such. And I'm not sure if that's even possible.

[hYPE]

Uh... what?

Hulk's just a human who got exposed to some radiation. His power has an upper limit. The whole madder hulk get stronger hulk get, hulk strongest one there is thing is just rhetoric, not (pardon my misuse of this term) fact. Even if you buy into it the fact is you can only get so mad. After that you just plateu.

I think the upper limit of Odin, a millennia old Norse God with cosmic power is quite a bit higher than a 97 pound weakling with a radiation burn.

now if you're asking about a Celestial picking up the hammer...

I think Kid Kyoto summed that up pretty well! I say no too!

[DeadXMan]

Didn't Red Hulk lift it?

no, there are three loop holes to Odin's Spell.

1. in the staff form anyone can pick it up (Bill and Magneto have done this)

2. In Zero G one can wield the hammer but not it's power( iron man was able to restive the Hammer for Thor in outer space. Rulk did this as well.

3. if Thor is still holding on to the thing the spell is not in effect.( Rulk did this as well which caught Thor off guard and gave Rulk an opportunity to kick his ass to the moon)

[NickGuy]

In the Marvel Universe, magic always trumps science. For instance, if the Juggernaut (can't be stopped) ran into the Blob (can't be moved), the Blob would move. In the same way, the Hulk can't lift Thor's hammer. Until we get a story indicating otherwise, that's my final answer.

-D

i like this answer

[Rev. Calibos]

The rule is 'Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor...' but who's to say who's worthy and who isn't?

If we count DC/Marvel team ups we can include Wonder Woman and Superman to the list of folks who have wielded Mjolnir but are these two somehow more 'worthy' than the Hulk?

Furthermore, what criteria do they use in determining 'worth'?


Initially I'd say that no, the Hulk couldn't pick it up. He was deemed unworthy during those instances when he tried to pick it up, but I'd wager that under the right circumstances he could pick it up with no issues.

Again, if we look at JLA/Avengers we see that Superman is able to hoist it during the heat of battle against Krona but as soon as he's defeated, when Superman attempts to retrieve the hammer for Thor we see that he can't, despite his efforts to lift it it stays put.

Puzzled he looks to Thor and tells him that he was able to lift it before, why can't he do it now?

Thor explains that while there is an enchantment on the hammer placed there by his father his father is no fool, he knew there would be times when the hammer would need to be wielded by another and Superman was just at the right place at the right time.


Now this is a DC/Marvel crossover so, to me at least, it's a bit hazy as far as whether or not we consider this canon but it does give us something to consider.

Because, imho at least, the Asgardians have played fast and loose with the rules before and because their concept of 'worth' isn't necessarily what we would consider it to be I think that the Hulk, under the right circumstances, could yield Mjolnir.

Maybe with the intellect of Bruce Banner, perhaps as Joe Fixit, or something else entirely, but considering who else has lifted it before I think that it's within the realm of reason to assume that it's not impossible.

[Haquim]

How can the hammer of thor be lifted?

1. By working according to Odin's spell's rules. Which is "being worthy" (having the upright and moral character required). A few characters in the MU, such as capitain america fill the bill. But that's an extremely limited number of people.

2. By having enough mystical power and skill to overcome said rules. Other skyfathers, greater cosmic entities, possibly archdemons (in special situations and with a lot of rituals and preparation) could be able to remove/alter/damage the spell enough to be able to wield the hammer. We are talking about beings like the celestials and above in terms of cosmic power or magicians with enormous resources and skills like Doc Strange (with A LOT of preparation and research)

3. The hammer can be lifted if enough brute force to defy the rules of reality is applied. This is what happened with Drax. At the time Drax was infinitely powerful due to the power gem (which channels infinite power to his owner...) and even so he was just able to lift the hammer to his knees. There are very few beings able of such a feat in the MU, not even those who exceed class 100 like Hercules can probably do it.

So how does Hulk fare against the hammer?

A. Hulk is Banner, Banner is Hulk. The hulks (there are several) are just facets of Banner's personality given flesh by gamma rays. And some of those personalities are deeply unpleasant. Banner may be basically a good guy, but he's not the model of moral righteousness the odinspell requires. He's got a darkness inside him preventing him from being able to lift the hammer (and besides it takes EXCEPTIONALLY moral characters to be able to conform to the rules of the spell).

B. Banner/Hulk is no magician and no cosmic being. He has not even the slightest hint of how to overcome the spell trough magic, nor the mystical power required.

C. The Hulk strength has no upper limit. The madder the stronger. And, as we see at the end of WWH with enough anger the hulk's strength can begin to crush reality itself. By the end of WWH Hulk Banner allows himself to be beaten because otherwise his mere presence on earth would shatter the planet. It's really not much different from how the power gem works (something aknowdledged by Thanos himself when he faces the champion of the universe, he says the gem gives the champion powers similar to the hulk's "a confrontation I have tried to avoid for years"). So at a worldbreaker leavel of anger the hulk is able of cosmic level feats of strength. And probably this can allow him to lift the hammer (how much is to be seen). Problem is, even being able to lift the hammer is not like being able to wield it. Strength alone won't allow anyone to borrow thor's power. One may be able to break the "no lifting" rule by feats of cosmic strength, but that doesn't mean the hammer gives his power to an unworthy being. To be able to lift the hammer and access its powers one needs to conform to either 1 or 2. 3 doesn't cut it.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

1. Only worthy beings can lift Thor's hammer.
2. Nothing can stop the Juggernaut.

Can Juggernaut lift Thor's hammer?