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  1. #91
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    At the beginning of the issue, it's "friday," but by the end, it's "wednesday," at least in my copy of adventures 648. One of them is a goof.
    I don't think that's a goof! Does it say how long Superman fought Chemo for anywhere in the issue? :D

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by d newton
    I don't think that's a goof! Does it say how long Superman fought Chemo for anywhere in the issue? :D
    The first reference is 12:51 am Friday and the second is 12:51 am Wednesday. Both refer to the same moment - the moment that Chemo initially exploded. One is a typo.

    :)

  3. #93
    http://www.gokimusic.net/ G.O.K.I.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulTiberius
    Alex says his manipulations were via a hologram. The Villains United Luthor (Alex) was never really there until Superman-2 broke the wall. Of course, it was a hologram capable of stabbing a guy...
    I have, but...even with holograms, how did he set up the hologram. How did he get a holomatrix set up on the Earth, how did he even broadcast a signal from their "place of no contact to Earth" to Earth?

    Maybe I'm thinking too hard. But, IMO if the breaking of the 4th Wall didn't happen pre-crisis, then it's the only loop-hole.

  4. #94
    Soldier of the Apocalypse PaulTiberius's Avatar
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    I think you're thinking too hard. If the wall breaks long before all the crisis buildup, then you have timeline problems and humongous plot implausibilities ... as in, what would Superman-2 have been doing for the weeks and months after he broke the wall until IC #2?

    I think the problem with Alex setting up a hologram projector would only be a matter of devising some suitable techno-babble. It's nothing to be concerned with story wise. Although it does strike me as possibly a late addition to the story, something a fan maybe pointed out as a problem, so Johns came up with the hologram line.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.O.K.I.
    I have, but...even with holograms, how did he set up the hologram. How did he get a holomatrix set up on the Earth, how did he even broadcast a signal from their "place of no contact to Earth" to Earth?

    Maybe I'm thinking too hard. But, IMO if the breaking of the 4th Wall didn't happen pre-crisis, then it's the only loop-hole.
    I read it like this (and the art seems to support this reading): While Superman was distracted taking care of Lois (inside the haven universe) Superboy broke out, and he and Alex entered the DCU. Superboy recovered the anti-Monitor's corpse, while Alex built up the Society so he could use them to capture the people he needed for his weather vane thing.

    The hologram was projected around Alex's body. (That's what we see disappear when the real Luthor destroy's his computer in IC 3).

    Superboy also moved planets around, including Rann, to re-center the universe.

    Alex and Superboy could come and go between the DCU and the haven as they pleased.

    This all happened before IC 1. At some point, the pair returned to the haven and showed Superman how bad the universe was, and they convinced him to break out, too. Superman never knew they had already left. (Alex probably knew that Supes would never gone along with it if he knew about all that other stuff they had been doing.)

  6. #96
    ACTION! DANGER! ROMANCE! Paul Newell's Avatar
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    That's the way I read it.

    BTW, It was revealed in the R/T War Special that Suerboy didn't move Rann, he moved Thanagar. Rann's move was still attributed to the coordinates of the Omaga Beam device being changed by Valkyr.

  7. #97
    Soldier of the Apocalypse PaulTiberius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulTiberius
    I think you're thinking too hard. If the wall breaks long before all the crisis buildup, then you have timeline problems and humongous plot implausibilities ... as in, what would Superman-2 have been doing for the weeks and months after he broke the wall until IC #2?

    I think the problem with Alex setting up a hologram projector would only be a matter of devising some suitable techno-babble. It's nothing to be concerned with story wise. Although it does strike me as possibly a late addition to the story, something a fan maybe pointed out as a problem, so Johns came up with the hologram line.
    Um, forget what I said and read Sudoku's post above. I'm a dork.

  8. #98
    New Member Be Stiff's Avatar
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    Default How does Robin #145-7 fit in right?

    It seems to imply that the Superboy fight took place prior to the Bludhaven nuking, and Beast Boy and Robin act like they weren't at the fight.

    Anyone got any ideas?

    (Edit: Oops - this was supposed to go in "Infinite Crisis")
    Last edited by Be Stiff; 02-21-2006 at 05:21 AM.

  9. #99
    Soldier of the Apocalypse PaulTiberius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Be Stiff
    It seems to imply that the Superboy fight took place prior to the Bludhaven nuking, and Beast Boy and Robin act like they weren't at the fight.

    Anyone got any ideas?

    (Edit: Oops - this was supposed to go in "Infinite Crisis")
    Those Robin issues, dating back to the previous few, are irreconcilable, any way you cut it. To fit in the timeline, you just have to decide that some details are gross errors.

  10. #100
    Superman's Stunt Double van-zee's Avatar
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    Default How much time has passed since countdown?

    I remember Didio referencing this at a con, but how long a timeframe has passed between Countdown to IC and IC, oh, #5 let's say.

    It seems like around a week, maybe two, to me.

    If so, that's a hell of a lot of stuff to go down in so short a time. But, after all, this is a Crisis.
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  11. #101
    Professional Scalliwag thehod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by van-zee
    But, after all, this is a Crisis.
    This is a crisis. A large crisis. In fact, if you got a moment, it's a twelve-storey crisis with a magnificent entrance hall, carpetting throughout, 24-hour portage, and an enormous sign on the roof, saying 'This Is a Large Crisis'. A large crisis requires a large plan. Get me two pencils and a pair of underpants.
    The Hod: Novelist, raconteur and celebrated sexual athlete.

  12. #102
    Truth, Justice & Kool Aid SuperManny's Avatar
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    Default month, give or take

    Quote Originally Posted by van-zee
    I remember Didio referencing this at a con, but how long a timeframe has passed between Countdown to IC and IC, oh, #5 let's say.

    It seems like around a week, maybe two, to me.

    If so, that's a hell of a lot of stuff to go down in so short a time. But, after all, this is a Crisis.
    I feel it's been about a month. I know most of the action spans about a day or two, but considering all the other events that is happening in most of the major characters' lives, as detailed in their own books, a month would fit them all nice and neat.

    The events in Infinite Crisis though I can see occuring within a week out of that month.

  13. #103

    Default Okay, let's do some catching up!

    More stuff has been published since this thread was last active, and I've done some extra reading, and so it's time to throw another proposed sequence against the wall and see what you all think.

    Prefatory note: it seems clear now that the main InfC story arc is set c. very early spring, around the end of March. I derive this mainly from Hal's comments in #6 about the baseball season opening "next week," with corroboration from the first OYL issue of Superman, which opens in "early spring." Sure, these could be dismissed as topical references, but IMHO they're at least better evidence for dating InfC than the Halloween reference I previously relied upon, which came from a fill-in crossover story that didn't fit in clearly to begin with (and may now need to be relocated to an earlier, DOV-related timeframe).

    (To me this is a notable change, since I'd previously been working with an "Autumn" timeframe. Whether this affects anyone else's analysis is up for grabs, of course; if your goal is simply to contain events from Countdown to InfC into a given window of time, notwithstanding larger chronology issues, then it may be moot.)

    Anyhoo. Here's my latest take on the whole thing -- key events in bold, again, and new or changed entries in blue. Open for comment!...

    Prefatory events (set during Countdown)
    InfC Secret Files (Superboy-Prime first escapes into our dimension)


    Day "0" (Friday)
    OMAC Project #6 (end), WW #221 (end)
    (Footage of Max's death is broadcast worldwide)

    Day 1 (Saturday)
    JLA #119 (end), Adv. Superman #645 (Watchtower is destroyed)
    -- note: Lois in middle east
    JLA #120(JLAers gather at cave, then Batman leaves for moon)
    InfC #1 (selected scenes: Big 3 battle Mongul and each other on moon; Society ambushes Freedom Fighters)
    JLA #121 (Arthur attempts to regroup JLA, contacts Nightwing)
    JSA #77 (JSA encounters Donna approaching Earth)

    Day 2 (Sunday)
    JLA #122-23 (Donna recruits Supergirl & RT in NYC)
    WW #222 (Diana surrenders to ICC; Donna & Kara visit; fights Cheetah)
    InfC #1 (cont'd), DoV #5-6, Gotham Central #37 (Rock of Eternity detonates over Gotham)
    -- follows longer-than-apparent continuity gap in DoV #5
    JLA #124-25 (Key defeated in Gotham)
    -- just after 7 Deadly Sins released

    Outsiders #29-31 (first scene) (Sins attack Alcatraz; Donna recruits Starfire, Jade, & Shift)
    -- still daylight on west coast
    GL #7-8 (Hal and Ollie take on Mongul)
    -- note: day after moon battle; Ollie has made incredibly fast return to west coast; story spans the night

    Titans #29 (Donna recruits Cyborg; Red Hood attacks Tim)
    -- begins at 8:45 pm PST; reference to "breaking footage" of Max's death is inaccurate (possibly a recording?)
    Superman #223 (Supergirl bids farewell to Clark, in Peru)
    Hawkman #47-48 (fight Komand'r; prequel to Donna's arrival at Polaris)
    JSA #78-80 (JSA goes to Fate's tower & 5th dimension)
    InfC #1 (Bloodhaven scene: night) Donna says goodbye to Dick; OMACs change protocol

    Day 3 (Monday)
    InfC #2 (opening scenes: morning) (Animal Man leaves; Freedom Fighters news breaks)
    --scenes need to occur as early as possible
    Titans #30-31 (Brother Blood attacks)
    InfC #1 (Smallville scene: 4:34 pm, per Titans #30) (Conner learns of Titans battle & Luthor flight on TV)
    Superman #224 (Luthor in arctic; Superman attempts to find him)
    -- note: Lois in Metropolis
    Firestorm #20 (Donna & crew in space)
    Outsiders #31-32 (Donna & co in space, vs. Komand'r)
    InfC #1 (climax) (Kal-L & co. escape Alex's "prison" dimension)

    Day 4 (Tuesday)
    InfC #2 (main story) (Kal-L rescues Power Girl, explains her history)
    Adv. Superman #646-47 (final unmasking of Ruin)
    -- note: Lois now in Europe: visits Diana in Hague, then goes to Zurich
    Outsiders #33 (team captures one Society outpost)
    GL #9 (Hal and Batman team up against Tattooed Man)
    JSA #81 (side battle in Philly)
    JSA #82 (Kara seeks advice from Ma Hunkle)
    Gotham Central #38 (Crispus Allen murdered)
    -- nighttime; "12-8" on notepad probably not accurate


    Day 5 (Wednesday)
    WW #223 (wee hours) (learns of new OMAC attack on Themyscira)
    InfC #2 (final scenes) & #3, Aquaman #37, WW #224 (Spectre destroys Atlantis; Batman argues with Brother Eye & meets Kal-L; Diana sends Themyscira away; the two Luthors meet)
    -- end of InfC #2 must follow gap for other events (e.g., Lois' visit to Diana in the Hague, which can't plausibly be on the same day as the Luthor crossover issue just above, as well as GL crossover)
    -- note "43 minute" span of entire Batcave sequence in InfC #2-3
    Gotham Central #39-40 (Allen's death investigated; Montoya quits GCPD)
    --occupies full day; upcoming funeral mentioned for "Thursday"

    Superman #225 (S. flies west -- with brief stop in El Paso per InfC #3 -- to fight fires)
    -- Lois back in U.S. Also note the night sky on pg. 5 when S. departs.
    DoV Special (Rock of Eternity reconstructed, Dr. Fate killed, Spectre finally defeated)
    -- night; must follow InfC #3, despite apparently intact Gotham in in other crossovers

    Day 6 (Thursday)
    InfC #4 (Chemo dropped on Bludhaven)
    Adv. Superman #648 (Superman & others assist in Bludhaven)
    -- places detonation at 12:51 am (Friday? or Wednesday? :rolleyes: ); must span full day, given events below
    WW #225-226 (Diana bids farewell to the Olympian Gods)
    -- news mentions events in Bludhaven

    InfC #4 (daytime) (Superboy-Prime battles Conner, Titans & JSA)
    Titans #32 (expands on battle; Doom Patrol regains its history)
    Robin #146-147 (Robin & Titans seek cure for Conner)
    -- first page elides a large continuity gap
    Titans Annual #1 (Conner & Cassie in Smallville, Robin & others return to Bludhaven)
    -- Luthor scene matches scene in IC #5; events span the night
    Nightwing #116 (Dick re-enters Bludhaven, rescues friend)
    Hawkworld #49 (space heroes regroup)

    InfC #4 (end) (Alex activates machine, "restores" Earth-2)
    Rann-Than Special (war ends, Jade dies, Kyle becomes Ion)
    Firestorm #21-22 (Firestorm rebuilt to include Prof. Stein)
    InfC #5 (opening scene) (heroes gather at church)

    Day 7 (Friday)
    Nightwing #117 (Dick awakens in Batcave [& plans with Bruce, per one scene in InfC #4], confronts Deathstroke, proposes to Babs, then heads west)
    -- spans the day
    InfC #5 (team gathers in Batcave; Clark battles Kal-L on Earth-2; Dick summons allies but gets only Conner; Alex creates more earths)
    Superman #226/Action #836/Adv. Supes #649 (details of battle)
    Titans #33 (Dick & Conner leave Titans Tower, stop in Vancouver)

    Day 8 (Saturday)
    InfC #6 (wee hours?) (Batman's team takes out Brother I; Dick & Conner defeat Alex & SB-Prime; Conner dies)

    Day 9 (Sunday)
    Omac Project Special (Sasha defeats remnant of Brother I in Saudi Arabia)
    -- day after her return, allowing for international travel time


    So! That seems to be it so far. Have I missed anything?
    Last edited by lawman; 04-14-2006 at 01:21 AM.
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  14. #104
    Soldier of the Apocalypse PaulTiberius's Avatar
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    Hey, Lawman. I'm looking forward to examining your plan in more detail, but I don't have time at the moment.

    Regarding the time of the year: I about coughed up a lung when I saw the baseball reference in IC #6 last week. Because a couple months ago, an issue of JSA Classified said the time frame was New Year's Eve. And if you go further back, you have a Halloween reference not just in Action Comics, but also in the background art of the Green Arrow arc that ended up with Mia buried in the rubble in Ollie shot through the heart. And we still have no idea when THAT event takes place.

    So what part of the year it all takes place in is simply unknowable. What a huge goof on DC's part!

  15. #105

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    I admit I haven't caught up on my JSA Classified reading since the Power Girl arc ended -- where was the NYE reference?

    As for Green Arrow, I have read the latest arc (although I skimmed some of it, so I didn't catch a Halloween reference -- where was it?), and time of year aside, IMHO the only thing that makes sense is for the whole story -- the damage to Dr. Light II, Connor, Mia, and Ollie himself -- takes place after the end of Infinite Crisis, since all of those characters have been seen hale and hearty throughout the mini-series. Presumably right after, though, since the first OYL issue marks the "anniversary" of the explosions in Star City.
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