Spider-Woman Appreciation

[Lady_Alternate]

It's not a wish fulfillment

Guys, a Mod has asked people to move on.

Moving on, I'm enjoying some of the graphics work that's come about as a result of the Kelly Sue / Caselli Jess & Hulk team.

[Will.S]

Yeah, I think the combination of skrull fallout and motion comic are what killed it. The book tied into Secret Invasion in a big way, but the comic ran into a bunch of delays because of the motion comic and Maleev burning himself out redrawing everything three times or whatever, so by the time it came out SI didn't feel relevant to the MU at all. I agree with some of the criticisms that the book was too slowly paced, but at the end of it I still really wanted to see where Jessica was going next.

I actually liked the skrull follow-up aspect of the series since it made sense both within Jessica's skrull ordeal and the possibility of sleeper skrulls still hanging around. It's definitely possible that people might have been pretty burned out on skrulls after all the build up to Secret Invasion and the event itself being so bloated didn't help but the book had a lot of potential after the skrull stuff was done to go anywhere it wanted to.

I do agree about the pacing though, Bendis could get away with that kind of stuff in other types of books but with the more fringe solo books it's probably a good idea to pace it more briskly to cover more material although obviously not at the expense of characterization.

[ZetaOmega0]

I notice you took the part of

It's not a wish fulfillment, it's more like it will eventually happen, like how Spider-man will never be an Avengers. Everybody keep on forgetting that Spider-man is the unofficial face of Marvel, there will be a connection made because there will be a story to tell.

when you reply.

Guys, a Mod has asked people to move on.

Moving on, I'm enjoying some of the graphics work that's come about as a result of the Kelly Sue / Caselli Jess & Hulk team.

Just because a mod ask us to move on doesn't mean the topic would disappear off this forum, now that is a wish fulfillment.

[Hrist]

I actually liked the skrull follow-up aspect of the series since it made sense both within Jessica's skrull ordeal and the possibility of sleeper skrulls still hanging around. It's definitely possible that people might have been pretty burned out on skrulls after all the build up to Secret Invasion and the event itself being so bloated didn't help but the book had a lot of potential after the skrull stuff was done to go anywhere it wanted to.

Oh, I think, minus the delays, it was a great plan. In theory a lead in from SI like that should be great for sales, it puts Jessica in a really interesting emotional place and the Agent of SWORD hook is a cool place to start an ongoing from. But it was delayed so much that when it came out the Skrulls didn't feel relevant. The delays + pacing + skrull focus made it feel like the book was lagging behind the rest of the MU.

I wonder if the pacing had to do with the motion comic, too? There were less "episodes" of that than there were issues. Comics are already pretty specific, they have to be 22 pages exactly, and having to write a story so that it fits cleanly into seven 22 page chapters and five 15 (or whatever) minute episodes seems a really tricky thing to lay out. Basically, I think the Spider-woman series got messed up by the stuff that, I'm sure, when they were planning it, seemed like great ways to make the book seem important and exciting.

I wish Marvel hadn't adopted it's no minis policy, because that seems like it'd be an easier sell than a new SW ongoing, though I would like that too. Her book was selling above the cancellation threshold when they axed it despite the problems. But, at least Jessica is showing up in the Avengers books, and Captain Marvel. I was kind of worried that she'd be abandoned once Bendis left the franchise, but that doesn't seem to be the case!

[ZetaOmega0]

Oh, I think, minus the delays, it was a great plan. In theory a lead in from SI like that should be great for sales, it puts Jessica in a really interesting emotional place and the Agent of SWORD hook is a cool place to start an ongoing from. But it was delayed so much that when it came out the Skrulls didn't feel relevant. The delays + pacing + skrull focus made it feel like the book was lagging behind the rest of the MU.

I wonder if the pacing had to do with the motion comic, too? There were less "episodes" of that than there were issues. Comics are already pretty specific, they have to be 22 pages exactly, and having to write a story so that it fits cleanly into seven 22 page chapters and five 15 (or whatever) minute episodes seems a really tricky thing to lay out. Basically, I think the Spider-woman series got messed up by the stuff that, I'm sure, when they were planning it, seemed like great ways to make the book seem important and exciting.

I wish Marvel hadn't adopted it's no minis policy, because that seems like it'd be an easier sell than a new SW ongoing, though I would like that too. Her book was selling above the cancellation threshold when they axed it despite the problems. But, at least Jessica is showing up in the Avengers books, and Captain Marvel. I was kind of worried that she'd be abandoned once Bendis left the franchise, but that doesn't seem to be the case!

My idea for a Spider-Woman/Jessica Drew ongoing series and I mention on this thread before is going back to her original series. She deals local street level things, little to no mention of her being a S.W.O.R.D agent and being Avenger. In her original series she deals with the dark and weird, not the dark and gritty, but the dark and weird. She also had her own rogues gallery including the Brother Grimms and Gyspy Moth, while Spider-man's rogue gallerys are base on animal/science, hers could base on fables/mystic. The reason I stress for at least a Spider-man or a mention, because whether are not Spider-man is Marvel money maker. If you have Spider-man show up, people who only read Spider-man would notice the book and help jump start it. Like in Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers he show up once and mention over 10 issue later as a joke. The writer I get is Greg Rucka, he is well known for writing strong leading women.

[Hrist]

Really, Greg Rucka writing it, but no espionage stuff and Wolverine instead of Spider-man? I'd love to see how he'd write Jessica, though, it's really a shame that Marvel chased him away.

I do think if I were trying to pitch a Spider-woman book now I'd stay away from the aliens and probably the espionage and try to return to the strange stuff with maybe a bit of the private eye thing mixed in. I thought SWORD agent was a good angle in the immediacy of the Skrull invasion, when it made sense to try to capitalize on the momentum from SI, but that's not really there anymore. The secret agent stuff is a bit played out, though. A good number of prominent female Avengers were spies at one point or another, so having that background doesn't necessarily sell Jessica Drew. I also think Black Widow kind of has that niche locked down. But Jess Drew is kind of delightfully weird, and you could definitely build both plots and an aesthetic based on that.

[Will.S]

Oh, I think, minus the delays, it was a great plan. In theory a lead in from SI like that should be great for sales, it puts Jessica in a really interesting emotional place and the Agent of SWORD hook is a cool place to start an ongoing from. But it was delayed so much that when it came out the Skrulls didn't feel relevant. The delays + pacing + skrull focus made it feel like the book was lagging behind the rest of the MU.

I wonder if the pacing had to do with the motion comic, too? There were less "episodes" of that than there were issues. Comics are already pretty specific, they have to be 22 pages exactly, and having to write a story so that it fits cleanly into seven 22 page chapters and five 15 (or whatever) minute episodes seems a really tricky thing to lay out. Basically, I think the Spider-woman series got messed up by the stuff that, I'm sure, when they were planning it, seemed like great ways to make the book seem important and exciting.

I wish Marvel hadn't adopted it's no minis policy, because that seems like it'd be an easier sell than a new SW ongoing, though I would like that too. Her book was selling above the cancellation threshold when they axed it despite the problems. But, at least Jessica is showing up in the Avengers books, and Captain Marvel. I was kind of worried that she'd be abandoned once Bendis left the franchise, but that doesn't seem to be the case!

Well Marvel still does mini's but nowadays it's pretty random alternate universe/quirky stuff which is too bad because I'd be on board with another Spider-Woman mini series provided the right parameters.

And yeah the delays really hurt the title on several levels although interestingly enough I don't actually remember how much it was delayed due to it being such a while back. I know that the motion comic was being worked on diligently by Bendis, Maleev, and the voice talent but I forget how long the stretches were between months. Now I know that Bendis wanted to keep the collaboration on the title between himself and Maleev but I really wished he used another artist even if Maleev was burnt out, otherwise the title will always feel like unfinished business that could have given Spider-Woman a better chance at establishing herself as solo title.

My idea for a Spider-Woman/Jessica Drew ongoing series and I mention on this thread before is going back to her original series. She deals local street level things, little to no mention of her being a S.W.O.R.D agent and being Avenger. In her original series she deals with the dark and weird, not the dark and gritty, but the dark and weird. She also had her own rogues gallery including the Brother Grimms and Gyspy Moth, while Spider-man's rogue gallerys are base on animal/science, hers could base on fables/mystic. The reason I stress for at least a Spider-man or a mention, because whether are not Spider-man is Marvel money maker. If you have Spider-man show up, people who only read Spider-man would notice the book and help jump start it. Like in Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers he show up once and mention over 10 issue later as a joke. The writer I get is Greg Rucka, he is well known for writing strong leading women.

A Spider-Man guest star appearance may help bump one issue but that alone isn't going to retain an audience.

Heroes for Hire by DnA had that and it didn't help any so I think the current Captain Marvel/Hawkeye model is the best a new Spider-Woman book can hope for and steady/consistent sales. That and having a consistent look or artist on the series because too much rotation can wreck the visual consistency of the title which defines the identity of the book. From what I've seen depending on sales spikes do nothing positive outside of short term sales which we've seen also happen to Alpha Flight.

[ZetaOmega0]

Really, Greg Rucka writing it, but no espionage stuff and Wolverine instead of Spider-man? I'd love to see how he'd write Jessica, though, it's really a shame that Marvel chased him away.

I do think if I were trying to pitch a Spider-woman book now I'd stay away from the aliens and probably the espionage and try to return to the strange stuff with maybe a bit of the private eye thing mixed in. I thought SWORD agent was a good angle in the immediacy of the Skrull invasion, when it made sense to try to capitalize on the momentum from SI, but that's not really there anymore. The secret agent stuff is a bit played out, though. A good number of prominent female Avengers were spies at one point or another, so having that background doesn't necessarily sell Jessica Drew. I also think Black Widow kind of has that niche locked down. But Jess Drew is kind of delightfully weird, and you could definitely build both plots and an aesthetic based on that.

Marvel didn't chase Rucka away, he was writing the Punisher book, it didn't do so well, even though he was writing it, I wasn't reading it. I did mention in this thread before; soon or later a connection will be made between Spider-man and Spider-Woman/Jessica Drew, just I knew Spider-man will be an Avenger someday.

Well Marvel still does mini's but nowadays it's pretty random alternate universe/quirky stuff which is too bad because I'd be on board with another Spider-Woman mini series provided the right parameters.

And yeah the delays really hurt the title on several levels although interestingly enough I don't actually remember how much it was delayed due to it being such a while back. I know that the motion comic was being worked on diligently by Bendis, Maleev, and the voice talent but I forget how long the stretches were between months. Now I know that Bendis wanted to keep the collaboration on the title between himself and Maleev but I really wished he used another artist even if Maleev was burnt out, otherwise the title will always feel like unfinished business that could have given Spider-Woman a better chance at establishing herself as solo title.


A Spider-Man guest star appearance may help bump one issue but that alone isn't going to retain an audience.

Heroes for Hire by DnA had that and it didn't help any so I think the current Captain Marvel/Hawkeye model is the best a new Spider-Woman book can hope for and steady/consistent sales. That and having a consistent look or artist on the series because too much rotation can wreck the visual consistency of the title which defines the identity of the book. From what I've seen depending on sales spikes do nothing positive outside of short term sales which we've seen also happen to Alpha Flight.

I never said that a Spider-man appearance would boost sales, I said it would get people to notice the book. If people don't notice the book there wouldn't be much of the point and I did mention that a Spider-Woman ongoing series should go on the same rein as the Captain Marvel book.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Future Fearless Defenders cover preview

[Will.S]

Future Fearless Defenders cover preview

Is that Mark Brooks?

Looks really cool.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Is that Mark Brooks?

Looks really cool.

Mark Brooks indeed.

And it's only a part of the preview.

[Darthfury78]

Here is a cool cover art that is the Spider-Family.





Amazing Spider-Man #648 remarked with "spider-women" head-shots by Ken Haeser! Awwww yeah! With spiders the female could be more deadly than the male and here they are! Here's a collection of those dangerous and daring dames of Spider-Man's world. Five "spider-women" on each cover (the five shown), each hand-drawn!

[visionaryII]

I do agree that Jessica's rogue gallery is the macabe and weird but at the same time pushes into the espionage realm just on a superhuman level. This might call for a new rogues gallery of femms that others, such as wolverine, battle but are not really played up because they're women and showing a man beating up on one doesn't go over very well. Also she shows a good potential for being an h4h member given her history with them but maybe she belongs on a good Defenders team.

[Darthfury78]

I do agree that Jessica's rogue gallery is the macabe and weird but at the same time pushes into the espionage realm just on a superhuman level. This might call for a new rogues gallery of femms that others, such as wolverine, battle but are not really played up because they're women and showing a man beating up on one doesn't go over very well. Also she shows a good potential for being an h4h member given her history with them but maybe she belongs on a good Defenders team.

[Thirteen]

Ms Drew as one of the many loves of Hawkeye, from the Hawkeye #8 Preview...
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...eview&id=15396
Attachment 109469
Interesting fashion choices for the ladies, evocative of their costumes. A lil heavy handed but I appreciate the effort to show them in civvies.
Jessica in knee socks and mary janes with the bouffant hair. Very "Mad Men".