My Timeline for Batman's Age (and why it's probably wrong!)

[Jorriss]

Tell that to Ted Grant.

He's actually the one I was thinking of when stating even in comics 40 is old but I wasn't sure of his age.

If Batman is supposed to be better than any pro athlete ever, then him being awesome at 40 isn't a stretch at all for me, esp. when you think about real-life guys like Favre, Couture, George Foreman, Ray Lewis, Randy Johnson, etc

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just stating for an athlete 40 is still old.

[Lorendiac]

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just stating for an athlete 40 is still old.

Sure, but that's for pro athletes in the real world, who only get to use the tools of modern medicine whenever they are injured. Batman lives in a whole different world! As Tequilamokinbrd pointed out earlier, Batman got brought back from the dead, body rebuilt from scratch, in "The Obsidian Age." Tequilamokinbrd also said Batman got a dose of the Purple Healing Ray once. I don't remember that one, offhand, but I'm willing to believe it happened -- and I do remember that in the graphic novel "Birth of the Demon" (which I believe I didn't own at the time I launched this thread) Batman suffered a lethal wound, fell into a Lazarus Pit, and bounced right back to the pink of health!

Since regular baths in the Lazarus Pits have been keeping Ra's al Ghul going for centuries, it is not ridiculous to speculate that Batman's single dip in a Pit effectively reduced his "physiological age" a bit so that he was actually "younger" and "healthier" than he had been before he suffered that nasty wound in the first place! (For one thing -- if I understand how the Pits work, that dip should have "restored to perfect condition" any muscle, tendon, piece of cartilage, etc., which was starting to show signs of wear and tear after several years of strenuous exertion and the occasional severe injury -- gunshot wounds and so forth. Even if the chest wound which had happened to Batman two minutes earlier hadn't touched that particular muscle (or tendon, or whatever) at all!)

Although I still don't agree that Batman is as old as 40 in DCU time. I admit that with all the retcons which DC tosses around at the drop of a hat these days, it's very hard to figure out just how long it's supposed to have been since this, that, or the other thing happened in the "latest version of continuity." And how old a character was when he "started his career," for that matter. For instance! Back in 2006, Grant Morrison said in an interview that as far as he was concerned, Bruce had actually put on the pointy-eared costume for the first time when he was just 19 years old! Which would make him six years younger today than he would be if we accepted Frank Miller's statement in "Year One" that Bruce was 25 before he decided he'd done as much training as he needed, and now it was time to head home to Gotham and start putting theory into practice!

But even if we found out that Bruce Wayne, according to his birth certificate, was born "forty years ago," that still wouldn't have much bearing on the questions of "what is the effective age of his body, right here and now, after all the miracle cures he's experienced over the years? How long can he keep up this pace before his aging body finally forces him to slow down and take it easy?"

[Jared]

Morrisson's "19 years" strikes me as a too young for Bruce to be starting. For one thing, Bruce would pretend to drink alcohol in public when he came to Gotham, even right in front of police officers.

I would like him to be younger than 25, however. I my mind, the current Batman is perpetually in his late 30s. He's right around the point that he worries about age starting to catch up with him, but it hasn't yet in any major way.

[Lew Moxon]

Morrisson's "19 years" strikes me as a too young for Bruce to be starting. For one thing, Bruce would pretend to drink alcohol in public when he came to Gotham, even right in front of police officers.

I would like him to be younger than 25, however. I my mind, the current Batman is perpetually in his late 30s. He's right around the point that he worries about age starting to catch up with him, but it hasn't yet in any major way.

I imagine him being between 22-27 when he started out. I know, it's a wide range, but I think it works. He'd have to be at least 21 for the reasons you mentioned. It's actually not the fight training I have the problem with. I can imagine Bruce taking boxing lessons and the sort from a very early age, perhaps as quickly as his parents murder. I can even see Bruce taking gymnastics and the like. I think one could argue that a young Bruce was rather active, either he came up with the idea of being Batman or something like it on the spot, or he simply didn't want to have any time to dwell on the event. Add the 2 1/2 months Morrison mentions, and we've probably got ourselves quiet an fighter by age 19. This of course assumes that Bruce works with "ninja shadow masters" at age 17. Which strains the suspension of disbelief a little bit, but I'll let that past. A man could be trained into becoming quiet a fighter at that age. But even from the beginning, Bruce had to be at least a competent detective. At that's why he has to be a bit older than nineteen in my opinion. He needs time to learn how to be a detective. (I assume the ninja shadow masters" teach him how to use his weapons.) I'm also assuming Bruce's knowledge of the esoteric shown in Morrison's run is a product of who he fights, and that Bruce continued to study up on such things after he first put on the cowl.

With all that in mind, I can see his age being reduced 22-23 but no more than that. Which actually still works with what Morrison indicates. In that interview if I remember correctly, he imagines Bruce as having been fighting for 15 years, which makes him between 37-38, which fits with the "over thirty" statement by Jezebel Jet.

[Lew Moxon]

Morrisson's "19 years" strikes me as a too young for Bruce to be starting. For one thing, Bruce would pretend to drink alcohol in public when he came to Gotham, even right in front of police officers.

I would like him to be younger than 25, however. I my mind, the current Batman is perpetually in his late 30s. He's right around the point that he worries about age starting to catch up with him, but it hasn't yet in any major way.

I imagine him being between 22-27 when he started out. I know, it's a wide range, but I think it works. He'd have to be at least 21 for the reasons you mentioned. It's actually not the fight training I have the problem with. I can imagine Bruce taking boxing lessons and the sort from a very early age, perhaps as quickly as his parents murder. I can even see Bruce taking gymnastics and the like. I think one could argue that a young Bruce was rather active, either he came up with the idea of being Batman or something like it on the spot, or he simply didn't want to have any time to dwell on the event. Add the 2 1/2 months Morrison mentions, and we've probably got ourselves quiet an fighter by age 19. This of course assumes that Bruce works with "ninja shadow masters" at age 17. Which strains the suspension of disbelief a little bit, but I'll let that past. A man could be trained into becoming quiet a fighter at that age. But even from the beginning, Bruce had to be at least a competent detective. At that's why he has to be a bit older than nineteen in my opinion. He needs time to learn how to be a detective. (I assume the ninja shadow masters" teach him how to use his weapons.) I'm also assuming Bruce's knowledge of the esoteric shown in Morrison's run is a product of who he fights, and that Bruce continued to study up on such things after he first put on the cowl.

With all that in mind, I can see his age being reduced 22-23 but no more than that. Which actually still works with what Morrison indicates. In that interview if I remember correctly, he imagines Bruce as having been fighting for 15 years, which makes him between 37-38, which fits with the "over thirty" statement by Jezebel Jet.

[Gabe De Los Muertos]

Morrisson's "19 years" strikes me as a too young for Bruce to be starting. For one thing, Bruce would pretend to drink alcohol in public when he came to Gotham, even right in front of police officers.

I would like him to be younger than 25, however. I my mind, the current Batman is perpetually in his late 30s. He's right around the point that he worries about age starting to catch up with him, but it hasn't yet in any major way.

Keep in mind that we don't know the drinking age in the DCU, it may even be 18, and Bruce Wayne is a celebrity. You honestly think cops will tell him anything? Celebrities that are underage here go to clubs and drink without any problems, so I don't see why he would have any.

[Jared]

Keep in mind that we don't know the drinking age in the DCU, it may even be 18, and Bruce Wayne is a celebrity. You honestly think cops will tell him anything? Celebrities that are underage here go to clubs and drink without any problems, so I don't see why he would have any.

Is there any reason to suspect that the drinking age in the U.S. isn't the same as the real world? I always figure most laws and customs are the same, except where specifically stated to be otherwise.

And Bruce offered Jim Gordon and Sarah Essen champagne in Year One. They declined, being on duty. But I can't imagine he'd try that if he were 19. I can actually see Jim coming down on him for being such a brazen punk.

But it's not even the drinking that's the issue with me. While 19 means adulthood legally, it doesn't culturally. In my mind, Bruce should be fully into his manhood when he becomes Batman. He has to be old enough that when he meets other heroes, he is instantly seen as a contemporary, not a kid.

I assume Bruce at the very least wrestled in high school and college. Though boxing and karate lessons are quite possible as well. I've never bought that he learned *everything* he knows in just that 7-10 years abroad.

[Lorendiac]

Is there any reason to suspect that the drinking age in the U.S. isn't the same as the real world? I always figure most laws and customs are the same, except where specifically stated to be otherwise.

And Bruce offered Jim Gordon and Sarah Essen champagne in Year One. They declined, being on duty. But I can't imagine he'd try that if he were 19. I can actually see Jim coming down on him for being such a brazen punk.

Even in the USA, the rules on "drinking age" vary from state to state. And DC generally works hard to not tell us which state Gotham is in. Therefore, Bruce might live in a state where it is perfectly legal for a 19-year-old to sip from a glass of champagne.

Anyway, if Morrison is gleefully ignoring the way "Year One" explicitly told us Bruce was 25 when he came home to Gotham to start some serious crimefighting, then he is equally capable of retconning the bit where Bruce offers champagne to Gordon and Essen in that story arc!

[Lew Moxon]

My question is this. Most of what I've heard about Bruce's training has more or less concerned how he learned how to fight. But the Dark Knight's detective skills are equally important for creating the Batman persona.

I am completely revealing my ignorance on the subject, but how does one study to become a detective, and how many years would such a study take?

As I said, I could almost buy Bruce being a great fighter at nineteen, it's the detective skills where things get iffy for me.

[dupersuper]

My question is this. Most of what I've heard about Bruce's training has more or less concerned how he learned how to fight. But the Dark Knight's detective skills are equally important for creating the Batman persona.

I am completely revealing my ignorance on the subject, but how does one study to become a detective, and how many years would such a study take?

As I said, I could almost buy Bruce being a great fighter at nineteen, it's the detective skills where things get iffy for me.

It has been said he trained with trackers and P.I.'s, and of course read a lot.

[Jorriss]

My question is this. Most of what I've heard about Bruce's training has more or less concerned how he learned how to fight. But the Dark Knight's detective skills are equally important for creating the Batman persona.

I am completely revealing my ignorance on the subject, but how does one study to become a detective, and how many years would such a study take?

As I said, I could almost buy Bruce being a great fighter at nineteen, it's the detective skills where things get iffy for me.

Given they gave him a brain with a power on par of William Siddis, being a good enough fighter and athlete probably would be the bigger challenge.

[Chris S.]

Even in the USA, the rules on "drinking age" vary from state to state. And DC generally works hard to not tell us which state Gotham is in. Therefore, Bruce might live in a state where it is perfectly legal for a 19-year-old to sip from a glass of champagne.

It does not vary in the USA. It is 21 across the board.

[Jared]

It has been said he trained with trackers and P.I.'s, and of course read a lot.

Ducard was a major teacher in that area. Also, if it hasn't been retconned, he studied relevant fields at Princeton, with an eye toward joining the F.B.I.

One semester we took Criminology for Christ's sake, what the f**k were we trying to be, Batman?"

[Lorendiac]

It does not vary in the USA. It is 21 across the board.

Nope! As a rule of thumb, it would be a crime (apparently) for Bruce Wayne to dig into his own pocket and purchase an alcoholic beverage in the USA before he turned 21. That doesn't mean every state in the Union has laws to prevent him from drinking something alcoholic!

Although I didn't bother to mention it earlier -- before I typed my comment about legal drinking ages varying across the map of the USA, I took the trouble to glance at what Wikipedia had to say on the subject. I vaguely remembered having read, somewhere, sometime, that not all states set the bar (no pun intended) in the exact same place where youthful drinking is concerned. But I wanted to verify that before committing myself.

(Since I never drink alcohol myself, I've never felt the overwhelming need to take the time to study and memorize the relevant laws for each of the 50 states.)

On its page about Legal Drinking Age, in the section about the USA, Wikipedia says the following (I've added boldface to a few key bits):

The National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 states that revenue will be withheld from states that allow the purchase of alcohol by anyone under the age of 21. Prior to the effective date of that Act, the drinking age varied from state to state. Some states do not allow those under the legal drinking age to be present in liquor stores or in bars (usually, the difference between a bar and a restaurant is whether food is being served). Contrary to popular belief, since the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984, few states specifically prohibit minors' and young adults' consumption of alcohol in private settings. As of January 1, 2007, 14 states and the District of Columbia ban underage consumption outright, 19 states do not specifically ban underage consumption, and an additional 17 states have family member and/or location exceptions to their underage consumption laws.

So it seems to me that it's perfectly possible for the following situation to occur, depending on which state Gotham is in:

1. Bruce Wayne, age 19, is sitting at home in Wayne Manor.

2. Alfred Pennyworth, who is definitely old enough to purchase alcohol anywhere in the USA, serves "Master Bruce" a glass of champagne.

3. Alfred either bought the champagne himself, or else is uncorking a bottle which was bought by Thomas Wayne a long time ago for the Manor's wine cellar. (In that latter case, the bottle would now belong to Bruce as his legal property -- but without his ever lifting a finger to purchase it!)

4. Bruce drinks the champage.

5. Everything in this picture is legal. In which case: If Jim Gordon, a career cop, is sitting in the same room watching, he will know there's no point in trying to tell Bruce he "can't do that!" Because Bruce is perfectly within his rights!

[myme]

Maybe add the possibility, that the Waynes own a vineyard.