Original Cat (Greer) question

**Jerry W. Loper** · 09-01-2005, 08:52 AM

Seeing Greer mop up the floor with at least 17 skilled HTH vigilantes in her miniseries a couple of years ago made me wonder: What other Marvel street levellers are in the same league in HTH skill with original Greer Nelson, the Cat (yellow & blue costume), before she got the fur?

**thik_3rd** · 09-01-2005, 09:05 AM

iron fist, shang chi. actually they're well above her league.

**Jerry W. Loper** · 09-01-2005, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by thik_3rd

iron fist, shang chi. actually they're well above her league.

Danny and Shang have been studying martial arts since they were kids (Shang since the age of 4), so yeah, they'd have accumulated more MA knowledge than Greer. Personally I estimated Greer's HTH skill back in the Cat days to be in the league of Mockingbird, Silver Sable, and maybe Black Widow (I think Greer would've been superior in HTH to Felicia the Black Cat); was just asking for others' opinions.

**The Defenestrator** · 09-01-2005, 09:13 AM

Honestly, it all depends on how much her next writer loves her. Just look at characters like the Black Panther, treated like jokes for years. When a talented writer like Priest got a hold of Panther, he restored Panther's intellect and fighting skill, while other writers had put the guy up as a goofus dude or background dressing.

I really liked Greer Nelson and I sincerely hope they can find a good writer for her.

**The Shadow** · 09-01-2005, 09:19 AM

What about Captain America, Daredevil and Elektra?

**Jerry W. Loper** · 09-01-2005, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by The Shadow

What about Captain America, Daredevil and Elektra?

Though I'm a big Greer fan, I've gotta admit those are the cream of the street leveller crop in HTH skill; they are to street levellers what the Hulk and Thor are to superstrong bricks. If street levellers had 2 tiers, Cap, DD, and Elektra would be at the top of the 1st tier and I'm afraid Greer would be somewhere in the 2nd. (Just tryin' to be honest.) :o

**kcekada** · 09-01-2005, 10:19 AM

Through training and Dr. Tumolo's treatments (not sure what they were exactly) Greer was able to reach her ultimate potential. In many ways, she became more of a female Captain America than a female Spider-Man (to whom she was compared). She had superior strength, agility and speed, but not meta-human levels. Although Steve Rogers had meta-human strength at one time, he current abilities are not meta-human, but are the peak of human ability.

Greer had some other abilities that would put her above women who only had Olympic-level training like the Black Cat and Mockingbird. Probably the most important (and underrated) ability was empathy. This allowed her to sense weaknesses in other beings, but I don't think it was really even demonstrated except for her origin.

**kcekada** · 09-01-2005, 10:23 AM

Just to clarify, while Greer was pretty much the female equivalent of Captain America in regards to strength, she probably had more speed and agility.

On the other hand, she didn't have his fighting skills. Most of her fighting skills probably come from her time with the Avengers. Before that, she just relied on her wits and abilities.

As Tigra, she was actually closer to Spider-Man in strength, so fighting skills weren't as needed.

**Sandy Hausler** · 09-01-2005, 10:51 AM

While we're talking about the Cat, I always found the origin of Free Spirit to be remarkably similiar to that of the Cat. Anyone else agree?

Sandy Hausler

**Jerry W. Loper** · 09-01-2005, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by kcekada

Just to clarify, while Greer was pretty much the female equivalent of Captain America in regards to strength, she probably had more speed and agility.

On the other hand, she didn't have his fighting skills. Most of her fighting skills probably come from her time with the Avengers. Before that, she just relied on her wits and abilities.

As Tigra, she was actually closer to Spider-Man in strength, so fighting skills weren't as needed.

Wow, even I didn't know that Greer was that formidable before fur, though I knew that Dr. Tumolo gave her training! (Another result of the training, which seems to be forgotten, is that Greer acquired a photographic memory; she was shown reading a whole book and being able to remember it all, word-for-word.) The person you described, if you added the Tigra physical stats to her and if she got respect, would be a terror.

**Taskmaster** · 09-01-2005, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by The Defenestrator

Honestly, it all depends on how much her next writer loves her. Just look at characters like the Black Panther, treated like jokes for years. When a talented writer like Priest got a hold of Panther, he restored Panther's intellect and fighting skill, while other writers had put the guy up as a goofus dude or background dressing.

I really liked Greer Nelson and I sincerely hope they can find a good writer for her.

Yup and it only took Hudlin less then ten issues to try and flush all of that down the toilet. Sorry, g-d I hate Huddlin's BP

Wow reading all this makes me wish Tigra remembered She had these skills because she might make a formadble fighter in the MU if she accessed all these skills

**jadegiant77** · 09-01-2005, 01:59 PM

God, I love Tigra! That WCA issue that showed her origin and that of the Cat People was one of my favorite books as a kid! Gotta buy that one back! So can Greer switch forms? I heard she has acat head medallion that lets her do that. Really lame idea: CAT FORCE! Let's bring together alla Marvel's kittys: Tigra, Black Cat, Black Panther... :D

**Jerry W. Loper** · 09-01-2005, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by jadegiant77

God, I love Tigra! That WCA issue that showed her origin and that of the Cat People was one of my favorite books as a kid! Gotta buy that one back! So can Greer switch forms? I heard she has acat head medallion that lets her do that. Reall ylame idea: CAT FORCE! Let's bring together alla Marvel's kittys: Tigra, Black Cat, Black Panther... :D

.....gone back and forth on what the cat-head medallion does to Greer. In her origin story in Giant-Size Creatures #1 where she co-starred with Werewolf by Night, the medallion actually switched Greer from a human to a were-tiger and back a couple of times, once at the beginning of the issue when she was fighting some Hydra agents, and at the end, when she switched from furry to human to discourage the Werewolf, who was attracted to her furry form. (After that second change, she mentioned something about thinking she'd never be able to switch to human again.) Then in the 1980's, in the Avengers West Coast mini-series (not the ongoing series), she used the medallion again, but I think it was mentioned that it was only an optical or holographic illusion and that even when looking human, she was still really furry. Then just a couple of years ago, in the Christina Z & Mike Deodato mini-series, the medallion was back to REALLY switching Greer from human to were-cat and back.

**crystalline green** · 09-01-2005, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by jadegiant77

God, I love Tigra! That WCA issue that showed her origin and that of the Cat People was one of my favorite books as a kid! Gotta buy that one back! So can Greer switch forms? I heard she has acat head medallion that lets her do that. Reall ylame idea: CAT FORCE! Let's bring together alla Marvel's kittys: Tigra, Black Cat, Black Panther... :D

Here here! And don't forget Hellcat (who inherited Greer's original cat costume). I've always had a softspot for Marvel's cat themed heroes. I was a huge fan of Tigra's WCA origin story back in the day too.

**Sandy Hausler** · 09-02-2005, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by crystalline green

Here here! And don't forget Hellcat (who inherited Greer's original cat costume). I've always had a softspot for Marvel's cat themed heroes. I was a huge fan of Tigra's WCA origin story back in the day too.

It isn't Greer's costume. Note that it has no claw mark on the chest.

Sandy Hausler