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  1. #1
    Goth Chick Fan! Hecate's Avatar
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    Default Iron Fist vs Karnak (Inhumans)

    who wins this one?

  2. #2
    Starting the operation! GrampaGen's Avatar
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    Fist is still way faster and was shown on this board to be Spiderman's equal in all deparments. While Karnak can take on Thing, that's because he can see the punches coming. Iron Fist is faster and hits just as hard.

  3. #3
    It's hip to be square! Syzygy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrampaGen View Post
    Fist is still way faster and was shown on this board to be Spiderman's equal in all deparments. While Karnak can take on Thing, that's because he can see the punches coming. Iron Fist is faster and hits just as hard.
    I'm not as familiar with Iron Fist, but Marvel has stated that Karnak has both greater strength, endurance, and reaction time than Captain America. So Karnak is faster than peak human.

    Combine that with the ability to perceive and strike at weaknesses in Iron Fist's body and fighting style, and I've got to go with Karnak.

    Is Iron Fist better than peak human (other than his special "Iron Fist" attack)? So far as I'm aware, Marvel considers him "peak human" in terms of strength, endurance, and reaction time.

    Peace,
    Syzygy
    Last edited by Syzygy; 04-13-2007 at 02:22 AM.

  4. #4
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syzygy View Post
    I'm not as familiar with Iron Fist, but Marvel has stated that Karnak has both greater strength, endurance, and reaction time than Captain America. So Karnak is faster than peak human.

    Combine that with the ability to perceive and strike at weaknesses in Iron Fist's body and fighting style, and I've got to go with Karnak.

    Is Iron Fist better than peak human (other than his special "Iron Fist" attack)? So far as I'm aware, Marvel considers him "peak human" in terms of strength, endurance, and reaction time.

    Peace,
    Syzygy
    Iron Fist is WAY above peak human, he's a high end bullet timer and is brilliant team-wreaker.

    I'm thinking he can take Karnak pretty well.
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  5. #5
    Moderator Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Barring proof that Karnak is equal to Iron Fist in speed, I'm going with Iron Fist.

    And how can Karnak have greater endurance than Captain America, when Cap doesn't get tired? Serious question - does Marvel rate endurance differently?

  6. #6
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    If this was the Karnak that could get punched in the face with T'challa's strongest shot and get right back up like it was nothing... I'd want to say Karnak, admittedly for no driving reason beyond that I like Karnak.

    If this is the Karnak that gets whupped by a telepathic six year old and one punched by T'challa..

    Sorry, I lost my train of thought, I'm busy crying at how low Karnak has fallen.

  7. #7
    Moderator Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    If this was the Karnak that could get punched in the face with T'challa's strongest shot and get right back up like it was nothing... I'd want to say Karnak, admittedly for no driving reason beyond that I like Karnak.

    If this is the Karnak that gets whupped by a telepathic six year old and one punched by T'challa..

    Sorry, I lost my train of thought, I'm busy crying at how low Karnak has fallen.
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  8. #8
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    I'm almost hoping he dies in Silent War. Would be a mercy killing really. At least compared to more chances for David Hine to write him.

  9. #9
    Moderator Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    That bad, eh? :( I'm truly sorry.

    Teen Titans came out this week. Cass looked utterly ineffectual. Beechan's writing of the character continues to demonstrate his derision.

  10. #10
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Cass is admittedly well in the lead for pitiable descent, considering she got taken out by a guy with one arm. At least the six year old technically has body reading (not that it should have helped her)

  11. #11
    Moderator Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Cass is admittedly well in the lead for pitiable descent, considering she got taken out by a guy with one arm. At least the six year old technically has body reading (not that it should have helped her)
    I'd say both situations pretty much suck badly.

    A six year old? With body reading? Taking out Karnak? Joy. And people get annoyed with Cass. Who was this creature?

    Robin still remains snarky and utterly unsympathetic to her, as well. If she doesn't cave in his skull at the end of this arc (or at least break his nose)...then again, with Beechan writing, Cass isn't really capable of beating Robin.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syzygy View Post
    I'm not as familiar with Iron Fist, but Marvel has stated that Karnak has both greater strength, endurance, and reaction time than Captain America. So Karnak is faster than peak human.

    Combine that with the ability to perceive and strike at weaknesses in Iron Fist's body and fighting style, and I've got to go with Karnak.

    Is Iron Fist better than peak human (other than his special "Iron Fist" attack)? So far as I'm aware, Marvel considers him "peak human" in terms of strength, endurance, and reaction time.

    Peace,
    Syzygy
    Marvel can say whatever they want, until it's shown, it's not a feat. Can you point to specific instances in which karnak has shown greater strength, endurace, and reaction time than captain america?

    Even then, being faster than cap doesn't make him fast enough to keep up with IF. IF is a legitimate bullet timer. He's around spidey level when it comes to speed. Then there's his ungodly IF chi amping, and skill. IF seems to be on a much higher level than karnak.

  13. #13
    It's hip to be square! Syzygy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    A six year old? With body reading? Taking out Karnak? Joy. And people get annoyed with Cass. Who was this creature?
    I believe this event is being taken out of context. Luna, the six year old in question, is Crystal's daughter, and a member of the Inhuman royal family.

    Karnak was leading her in a hand-to-hand lesson, when she "surprised" him with her empathic aura-reading ability. So right there, it's not a real combat. Karnak's goal isn't to beat her, but to teach her, a task for which some degree of gentleness is required

    So, reading between the lines, it seems likely to me that Karnak allowed her to make the move. Obviously, he's not going to use more than a mere fraction of his power when sparring against a six-year old. If he had resisted rather than rolled with her throw, after all, he might have hurt her.

    So that's my in-context reading of this event.

    Peace,
    Syzygy
    Last edited by Syzygy; 04-14-2007 at 01:26 AM.

  14. #14
    It's hip to be square! Syzygy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Barring proof that Karnak is equal to Iron Fist in speed, I'm going with Iron Fist.
    This is going to be a problem. I don't think Karnak gets more than a fraction of the coverage that IF gets, quantity-of-issues-wise. Also, as a street-level, crime fighting human, IF is going to get shot at by bullets. I'm not sure if Karnak has ever even been shot at by bullets.

    However, I do have 44 years of Fantastic Four on disc. I'll see if I can find some feats for Karnak beyond him just breaking stuff with his shattering ability.

    And how can Karnak have greater endurance than Captain America, when Cap doesn't get tired? Serious question - does Marvel rate endurance differently?
    Serious questions deserve a serious answer. During Mark Gruenwald's CA run (of which I am the proud possessor of every issue), Captain America and John Walker (US Agent) get into an all-out, drag-on fight -- their first, I think.

    As I recall, the fight went on at a frenetic pace for thirty minutes, after which Rogers was totally winded, but Walker was still fresh. Walker's superhuman endurance beat out Roger's peak human endurance.

    If you want the issue number, it'll take me maybe 24 hours. My Cap comics are in a trunk, in a garage, with several other trunks on top of them.

    Peace,
    Syzygy

  15. #15
    Elder Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syzygy View Post
    I believe this event is being taken out of context. Luna, the six year old in question, is Crystal's daughter, and a member of the Inhuman royal family.

    Karnak was leading her in a hand-to-hand lesson, when she "surprised" him with her empathic aura-reading ability. So right there, it's not a real combat. Karnak's goal isn't to beat her, but to teach her, a task for which some degree of gentleness is required

    So, reading between the lines, it seems likely to me that Karnak allowed her to make the move. Obviously, he's not going to use more than a mere fraction of his power when sparring against a six-year old. If he had resisted rather than rolled with her throw, after all, he might have hurt her.

    So that's my in-context reading of this event.

    Peace,
    Syzygy
    Considering that Luna read his thoughts at being angry and suprised that he got outmaneuvered and knocked onto his ass, I'd say the comic doesn't quite jive with your context of "he let it happen". And "reading inbetween the lines" would be more "making stuff up".

    I mean hey, it would be nice if it did. But it didn't. Writers just like to crap on Karnak lately, for reasons beyond my comprehension.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 04-14-2007 at 03:13 AM.

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