"The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker side of the Doctor’s nature. Somewhere between his 12th and final incarnation."
Is the Anti Monitor a robot?
The Anti-Monitor is flesh and bone. (would say blood but i think u get the point)
...Perhaps these are answered elsewhere , I post under circumstances with very limited time , I don't have time to check ! I'm sorry .
(1) I have read fans comment that " Crisis clearly swiched tracks halfway thru , becoming somewhat less radical , reflecting cold feet DC developed after initially approving it " .
Now , this is about ( at best ) actual " what might have been published until Editorial changed its mind " , but - Can anybody expound on this ?
(2) This IS based on what was published - I do recall that DC of the 80s made mention , I guess in letter columns?? , of a " second wave " of Crisis that happened after the end of the story , destroying/changing some characters from how they were shown at the end of Crisis - As , anyway , I suppose , originally published .
(2&1/2) Were either Crisis or any other " univese-changing " later events " corrected " - IE , changed . - between the original , magazine , publication and the later , " for the ages " , book ????????? This would become more likely in the 21st , most obviously , and I saw comment regarding the crossover which Perez drew that came before Final Crisis ( Infinite Crisis ? ) referring to " corrections " for the book...
And a truly herculean effort. That said, I have one quibble, not with you specifically, but with a LOT of people who make what I believe to be a mistake regarding the nature of the Post-Crisis Earth. You say (as do others, including the writers of Infinite Crisis, bless 'em) that the post-Crisis Earth was a kind of "merger" of the five Earths that remained at the end of issue #10. I respectfully disagree. A close reading of #10 and #11 makes it clear that the new Earth is just that- a new Earth. The other Earths are gone. True, many aspects of the previous Earths are represented in the new timeline, but the fact remains that history STARTED OVER FROM SCRATCH- with just one Earth. There was no "merge" (except, perhaps, retroactively, if one happens to like IC's version of events.)
I admit the first page of #11 is confusing on this point. In one paragraph it says "What had been many, became one." But I don't believe that can really be taken literally- we never see the Earths merge. ALL we see is the beginning of time, during which a singular (actually, dual, counting the anti-matterverse) universe is born. Moreover, the concept of this being a five-Earth merger is plainly refuted by the fact that numerous characters eventually appeared in this Universe (or rather, Duo-niverse, since the Anti-Matter universe continued to exist, itself in an altered form) who were from parallel Earths that had been destroyed BEFORE #10- or that weren't ever shown to have been destroyed at all. Like, for example, the Inferior Five, Captain Carrot, The Crime Syndicate, Lady Quark, et al.
This probably seems like a nitpicky or semantic argument, but it actually makes a very big difference with regards to one of the major plot-points in IC(of Alex Luthor's "restarting" the universe.) It is particularly annoying to me that IC advanced the idea that the new Earth was "based on Earth-One" (something never advanced in COIE nor supported by any real evidence) and that the post-Crisis Superman was just the Earth-One Superman with slightly different details of his origin. Likewise, the throwaway line about characters who "would have existed on Earth-8 if it had been allowed to survive" also makes no sense, since the original COIE took place across all timelines, and, if there had been "Earth-8" heroes, they would have been in existance one way or another prior to the destruction of the multiverse- the same way the Legion of Super-Heroes existed despite their chronological existence years after 1985.
So, can't blame you for this, but I DO think it's a mistake, especially if this FAQ is meant to represent what actually happened in COIE rather than what was said to have happened twenty years after the fact.
I think, when it comes to Earth -8, a bit of sidestepping is used to get around that. I think the way it works is more that the Pre-Crisis Earth-1 and Post-Crisis Earth contained a Jason Rusch and Kyle Rayner who "embraced the destinies" of their counterparts of Earth-8...They weren't actually the Earth-8 analogues merged in. So technically it's correct saying they would have been Earth-8's heroes if it existed...It just doesn't mean they would not have existed, as separate beings, on Earth-1.This probably seems like a nitpicky or semantic argument, but it actually makes a very big difference with regards to one of the major plot-points in IC(of Alex Luthor's "restarting" the universe.) It is particularly annoying to me that IC advanced the idea that the new Earth was "based on Earth-One" (something never advanced in COIE nor supported by any real evidence) and that the post-Crisis Superman was just the Earth-One Superman with slightly different details of his origin. Likewise, the throwaway line about characters who "would have existed on Earth-8 if it had been allowed to survive" also makes no sense, since the original COIE took place across all timelines, and, if there had been "Earth-8" heroes, they would have been in existance one way or another prior to the destruction of the multiverse- the same way the Legion of Super-Heroes existed despite their chronological existence years after 1985.
It's a good point, I should actually look through and revise the FAQ as it was written before Infinite Crisis came out. :)So, can't blame you for this, but I DO think it's a mistake, especially if this FAQ is meant to represent what actually happened in COIE rather than what was said to have happened twenty years after the fact.
Last edited by Paul Newell; 10-07-2009 at 05:37 AM.
an incredible FAQ! really helped me understand the CoIE even though i've read the thing a few times. i'm new to this forum and it is very addictive. just thought i'd give some positive feedback. -S
so glad for clearing up things. the dcu had to cleared out and this was an awesome way to do it.
deaths had to come... barry allen dying is my fav death ever. totally glorious and totally heroic.
all in all, one of the greatest comics ever written and drawn.
[There's a place in my mind.The one part that isn't looking for a joke.When laughter breaks down, and humor can't quiet its hunger,the rage gets out]-Harley Quinn
Hi all - I originally posted this in the general DCU forum before I saw this specific Crisis forum. So apologies for the duplication, but maybe this is the better place for answers...
All this universe-revamping DCnU stuff got me reading Crisis again, and I thought I might see if anyone here can help with a niggling question that's always bugged me.
It's a little difficult to explain though so forgive me if this makes no sense. I read post-Crisis stuff before I ever went back and read Crisis, and had assumed that everyone and everything got reset and rebooted. But reading it, all the characters that were at the battle with the Anti-Monitor when the new, post-Crisis world gets created remember the original multiverse. Earth-2 Clark Kent briefly shows up at the Daily Planet, and Earth-1 Clark passes him off as his uncle, we see Earth-1 Batman burying Earth-2 Robin etc. - All on the new, sole, Earth that we are to assume is the Post-Crisis Earth.
Jay Garrick's 'place' in the new universe is different, his past has changed - but his memories have not. He's not a new, rebooted, Jay Garrick - he's the old Jay Garrick living out a new role with an altered history that he doesn't remember.
If this is the case for all the characters that we are told remember the changes caused by Anti-Monitor, then aren't their post-Crisis selves just their pre-Crisis selves on a new, altered world?
Where does that leave, for example, John Byrne's rebooted Superman? The Superman introduced in Man of Steel seems like a new character, completely separate from all the pre-Crisis versions - but while that may be the new history/origin of Superman in the merged world, the finale of Crisis indicates that the Superman that we read about after the Crisis is just the Earth-1 Superman, insulated from all the changes by the battle, with memories of the multiverse, his original origin, Earth-2 Superman and all the rest, just playing out his new role in the 'Superman' spot on this new Post-Crisis world.
Basically (I warned it would be gibberish) it seems that all the characters at the battle with Anti-Monitor at the dawn of time weren't rebooted at all. They are just the original Earth-1, 2, whatever, characters with their old memories, living on a new Earth where their histories have been changed. This is completely at odds with the usual idea of the post-Crisis characters being new, reset versions with a clean slate.
Have I missed something crucial?
Other than, obviously, it's just a comic book, don't worry about it :)
Thanks in advance for any insight
I'm not sure if I can be of much help here, but I'll try. First, I'm not entirely sure I understand what you are saying - when the first Crisis on Infinite Earths ends, the older version of Superman is the one who destroys the Anti-Monitor with his final blow. He and Lois are then saved -along with Superboy - in a pocket universe by Alex Luthor. I recall that this becomes important in a subsequent recent mega-event (I can't recall which one now - they all run together after awhile, though I want to say Infinite Crisis) when they all break free and Superboy becomes a psycho and Alex a villain.
I just recap this because, while I do recall the scene where Clark introduces his counterpart as an uncle, I don't think this could be after the end of COIE. As I recall, the characters after COIE - such as Byrne's "Man of Steel" that you reference - really were real reboots. They certainly did not have memories of another existence and various things about them were changed. For example, Byrne altered various aspects of Superman's powers, making his invulnerability due to a skintight forcefield, giving him a kind of telekinesis, and making his x-ray vision more about a sensitivity to x-rays as opposed to firing x-rays. So, I guess I'm saying that I am not sure how you arrive at the interpretation you do - that is not my memory of the post-Crisis (the first Crisis) DCU at all.
Anyway, as I said, I don't think this is very helpful but I hope something here might be useful to you.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I agree that the comics after the Crisis seem like complete reboots (Byrne etc). My point is that the new 'rebooted' earth is created within the pages of Crisis, and that the characters involved with the battle against anti-monitor at the dawn of time continue straight from their pre-crisis earth-1, earth-2 incarnations directly to the new earth with all their memories (and presumably powers etc) intact.
What I'm saying is the pre-Byrne, pre-Crisis Superman from Earth-1 is never reset, rebooted, whatever within the Crisis storyline. He transcends the resetting of the universe, and carries on with his life on the post-Crisis earth (even with his 'uncle clark' from earth-2 showing up at the Planet before going to live in the 'heaven' created by alexander luthor as you say). There's never a point where the original earth-1 superman goes away and is replaced by the John Byrne Superman. As far as the story tells us, it's still the same Superman as it ever was.
And same goes for all the other major characters too. It seems a bizarre oversight for a series the entire point of which was to reset everything, and noone else seems to bring up this discrepancy, which is what makes me think i've missed something... but i don't know what.