Writing Super-Heroes

[PatrickG]

I've been discussing whether or not super-heroes could transform the world into a utopia on Erik Larsen's board and I thought I'd cross-post the following comments as they seemed to form a "philosophy of writing super-heroes":

See... Maybe this is a preference of story scope and power levels but...

I think Superman or the Fantastic Four could.

We're talking about a universe in which some individuals or groups of individuals have more resources than individuals, than nations, than -- quite frankly -- our entire real world has put together.

People who can create black holes and escape their impossible pull in the course of an afternoon. People who can find, locate and acquire every ounce of gold of earth, make diamonds in their hands, observe and process the electrons orbiting around atoms. People who can know and recognize a person based on their DNA. People who are prepared against nuclear attack, who can travel between and create parallel dimensions, alter probability, walk through people's minds on a friendly stroll, rebuild shattered worlds, hear a heartbeat lapse farther than the speed of sound can carry it, sense danger a day away, wrestle angels, thwart gods and challenge rogue universes.

A world with superheroes a land where the blind see best, the children never grow up, the mild-mannered deflect bullets, the wronged avenge, the warriors make peace, the peaceful aren't forced to compromise and milk and honey are practically produced on tap by molecular replicators.

That isn't to say that superheroes don't have their share of problems but the twisted, bitter comedy of it all is that their problems, in spite of the remarkable feats they attain, are our problems. Medical bills they can't pay, women that won't give them the time of day, cheating boyfriends, overprotective parents, diapers that need changed, obnoxious bosses, impossible deadlines, dry-cleaning bills, unexpected expenses, government regulations, annoying co-workers, broken down transportation, death and taxes.

But they still recover from all of these things... These ills just give us a basis to relate, a moment to connect with. Eventually, the hero escapes just long enough for us to breathe a sigh of relief, enjoying our cartharsis, and then is promptly plunged back into the wellspring of the imagination to see how far they can be submerged into the collective unconscious notion of "adventure" without drowning. The key is that the heroes come up for air when the readers do. If they do so before, readers get bored. If they do so late, readers turn elsewhere for cartharsis and abandon the character to drown alone.

But "reality" and "relevance" where super-heroes are concerned is a game of chicken between creators and readers.

It's playing poker -- only the creators are the house and it's their job to win.

If it is a game of counting cards then with the right story and well-chosen words, a writer can accomplish anything. It may take a few hands... But I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility for super-heroes to score the ultimate happy ending and make a total break with reality.

However, I think the trick is that readers are trained to ask, "What next...?" and the writer needs to be six steps ahead by the time someone thinks to ask...

[Cam63]

I'd like to see how Superman would cope in the real world.

Tabloids stalking him 24/7, religious nuts accusing him of being a servant of the devil or claiming he represents their ideal of God's work and was sent to punish sinners, unbalanced people or schemers claiming they were molested by him or carrying his child, politicians/media commentators/the law accusing him of improper actions, criminals and/or people he saved suing for damages and Paris Hilton dropping her current bedpost notch like a ton of hot bricks so she could pursue him with all the charm of a cat on heat.

I think The Incredibles showed pretty accurately how some sections of society would treat a superhero.

Like shit.

[PatrickG]

I think a major factor for this is that super-heroes, as presented, aren't very PR conscious because they don't have to be. But if they really started cropping up, some would willingly start religions around themselves, some would take ad endorsements, some would run for office, some would host talk shows, some would pursue Paris Hilton.

Not saying they wouldn't save the day but real super-heroes would have to decide HOW MUCH they're about saving the day and what their desired impact is.

Superman, whose stated goal is to inspire, might pass out T-shirts and use his emblem as the banner for a social movement.

Batman, whose stated goal is to clean up a city, might have more of a following. We'd see Lucius Fox, Jim Gordon, mechanics, engineers, social workers all secretly working with an allegience to him that supercedes their governmental or corporate alliances like an underground cult.

Spider-man might be an MTV icon hosting TRL and noted for donating most of his money to charitable hospitals and pushing his message of responsibility in AIDS campaigns.

On the other hand, Ollie Queen and Hal Jordan would probably have dealt with a few STDs firsthand and done volunteer work for greenpeace and war veterans.

Booster Gold would probably have a late night talk show, several laughable presidential bids and be married to an aging B-movie actress.

There would be industries built around these figures. Not just stuff like Marvel's DAMAGE CONTROL. They'd have press agents, publicists, people who maintain museums and official websites.

Y'Know what's funny?

Most of this stuff was the norm in the 60s and 70s. The heroes had a very clear relationship with real world institutions. Superman was an avowed pacifist but he'd do missions for the president that didn't involve killing. Most of the heroes (not just Barry Allen) had clear scientist associates, museums, fan clubs and merchandising. They participated in charity. Batman worked with a pro racecar driver on the Batmobiles and he and Green Arrow both had international heroes whom they franchised out their M.O. to.

It wasn't as character driven. It was about their role in the state, national and world community.

[R. Buzzregard Mavrik]

For a superhero in the real world, check out the original superhero in Phillip Wylie's 1935 novel GLADIATOR which inspired Superman. The mutant hero Hugo has a sad, lonely, miserable life that is no way improved by his super powers. They pretty much create all his problems and he lacks the imagination and insight to take advantage of them.

I think the Marvel and DC heroes came off as more realistic when there were fewer characters. A superhuman or costumed crimefighter should be freakish and awe inspiring. It should be a rare sight. A rare sight, indeed.

[Gilda Dent]

The thing is, we do have superheroes who start religions. We just call them supervillians instead. Booster Gold was in it for fame and fortune. X-Statix were superheroes as celebrities, and Powers is built around the concept.

I don't see Superman as a capable of creating a utopia; he's more of a fireman than activist.

Reed Richards, on the other hand could create a technological utopia similar to the Star Trek future earth if he wanted to and was willing to do what it would take pragmatically to do so. That would, however, mean, essentially taking over ther world, which would make him Doom or Magneto.

I like Mark Millar's take on it in Red Son, where we see Lex Luthor, still an evil bastard, but able to create a paradise if only Superman weren't there to get in his way.

Essentially, superheroes don't create a paradise, a utopia, because the people who do want to do that invairiably must use authoritarian means to do so, which in the black and white world of superhero comics makes them villains.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

9 Frames Television Entertainment, a Vancouver/Toronto based series television creative, development & production company (see I.M.D.B. for credits) is in development of a new 'mature audience', animated comedy television series with a Canadian & U.K. broadcaster.

We are looking for any Canadian writers interested in collaborating speculative with us on the series pilot and subsequent series episodes.

We are members of The Canadian Film & Television Production Assoc., The Directors Guild of Canada and The American Screenwriters Assoc.

Serious inqu. only please by April 22,2009 to either:
Peter Carr (Vancouver) - Creative/Development Producer petercarr772@gmail.com
or Robert Appelbe (Toronto) - Series Producer rapinc@sympatico.ca

This has gotta rank up as the oddest spam bump up of a thread ever. I mean the 2 topics really have nothing at all to do with each other. WOW...

[PatrickG]

This has gotta rank up as the oddest spam bump up of a thread ever. I mean the 2 topics really have nothing at all to do with each other. WOW...

Unless they decided to develop my idea...

[Red Jack]

9 Frames Television Entertainment, a Vancouver/Toronto based series television creative, development & production company (see I.M.D.B. for credits) is in development of a new 'mature audience', animated comedy television series with a Canadian & U.K. broadcaster.

We are looking for any Canadian writers interested in collaborating speculative with us on the series pilot and subsequent series episodes.

We are members of The Canadian Film & Television Production Assoc., The Directors Guild of Canada and The American Screenwriters Assoc.

Serious inqu. only please by April 22,2009 to either:
Peter Carr (Vancouver) - Creative/Development Producer petercarr772@gmail.com
or Robert Appelbe (Toronto) - Series Producer rapinc@sympatico.ca

What about residency? I have a good friend who might be good for this. She's Canadian but has been living in the US for some time.

[Corrina]

I'm actually fairly sick of 'superheroes in the real world' story.

I'd want to write something like 'superhero world.' Like Robinson did with Starman.

Or pure silly adventure, like Batman: Brave & the Bold on TV. I'm getting quite fond of that show.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

I'm actually fairly sick of 'superheroes in the real world' story.

I'd want to write something like 'superhero world.' Like Robinson did with Starman.

Or pure silly adventure, like Batman: Brave & the Bold on TV. I'm getting quite fond of that show.

This is where I agree with you. I live in the real world. Why would I want to read about dreary reality when I can have Metropolis, or Opal, or Central City?

[Charles RB]

The problem with superheroes in the real world is it wouldn't be the real world after the superheroes had been around for more than a year - just one supervillain rampage would change the world and turn the story from kitchen-sink reality to major and surreal sci-fi.

Which most writers and companies seem loath to do.

The other way of doing it is the Astro City version, where many of the C-list villains live in and come from the same low-rent neighbourhood, the police make sure they have the evidence so the Evil Twin From Parallel Universe defence can't be used, and soap operas have superhero characters to add realism.

I live in the real world. Why would I want to read about dreary reality when I can have Metropolis, or Opal, or Central City?

I dunno about that - I live in the real world and I'm reading a book on the battle for Crete in World War Two, and I can't see Metropolis winning out. For a start, reality's the one where a university archaeologist was a covert agent of British intelligence and left his glass eye behind on a desk to show he was out meeting anti-Nazi guerilla units. Reality is weird.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

I dunno about that - I live in the real world and I'm reading a book on the battle for Crete in World War Two, and I can't see Metropolis winning out. For a start, reality's the one where a university archaeologist was a covert agent of British intelligence and left his glass eye behind on a desk to show he was out meeting anti-Nazi guerilla units. Reality is weird.

Point taken. I do enjoy books like the Friday Night Knitting Club.

But for the superhero genre, I want larger than life. I want big ideas. I want grand schemes. I want everything big and mythic.

[Charles RB]

I don't think all superheroes should be like that - there should be room, especially in a "universe", for there to be bright shiny guys and sweeping epics and vicious horrible fuckers (Gail, IIRC, talked about this before when doing Rose & Thorn). The amoral and bleak Thunderbolts should be able to exist in the same universe as the grand and mythic Captain Britain & MI:13 (and do). Heck, Judge Dredd has had three seperate spin-off strips starting within a few years about undercover Judges, and all three managed to be different (one manages to be different to itself by having alternating leads, including the legendary Dirty Frank).

The problem is the habit of companies, creators etc to say everything has to be THIS way now, made worse by bloody line-wide crossovers. It's a bit daft.

[JohnPopa]

Point taken. I do enjoy books like the Friday Night Knitting Club.

But for the superhero genre, I want larger than life. I want big ideas. I want grand schemes. I want everything big and mythic.

I'm a bit tired of people losing sight of the word 'super' as much as I am a bit tired of people losing sight of the word 'hero.'

[Pink Bat Maxine]

I'm a bit tired of people losing sight of the word 'super' as much as I am a bit tired of people losing sight of the word 'hero.'

hear, hear.