50 pages of my JLA Vs Avengers book, feedback welcome!

[JAM_ONIT]

I have been drawing JLA vs. Avengers battle pages since I was early in my teens(so forgive the crudeness of some of the pages), and have accumilated about 50 pages, some are still incomplete.

My original plan was to incorporate my pages with the 21 original ones that George had, to help complete the original story, which is why the time egg is involved, and the recent series did leave open a door for a time egg story.

It's still a fexible idea, but my focus has been to only draw the fights first and come up with the complete story later. As childish as it may sound to some, YES, WE WANT TO SEE THEM FIGHT, and fight they will. Each major match-up is going to be pages, of action, not just panels.

My designed battles so far are:
Bats .vs Cap - Location(Urban area i.e. warehouse,etc)
Supes .vs Thor- Location(maybe Asgard)
Wonder Woman .vs She-Hulk - Location(Paradise Island)
Dr.Fate,GL,MM,FS vs. Dr Strange,IM, Hercules (and maybe late appearance by Silver Surfer or Quasar)- Location (OA)
Flash .vs Quicksilver - Location (City)
SubMariner & Vison .vs Aquaman and Red Tornado - Location (Pre-Historic era/Ocean)
Hawkeye/Mocking Bird or Black Widow/Ant Man & Wasp .vs Green Arrow/Black Canary/ & Atom - Location (Apokolipse)

the Zatanna/Scarlet Witch match up, it would get its fair amount of pages(5-7)depending on what fight scenarios are suggested for it, but if other smaller/non high demand match ups were to be included, they would probably each be 2-3 pages in length.

Here's the 2-3 Batman/Black Panther, I've come up with:
The cosmic time disruption has been eradically merging certain places together at the beginning of the book, Batman will have driven the Batmobile down an alley to the edge of where Gotham city has merged into the Wakanda Jungle, this is where Black Panther will sneak up on him and his shadow will be cast on the alley wall, a la Batman how Bats does to street criminals.

Bats will immediately throw some batarangs, and BP would leap at a downward angle from a tree or something, countering with his daggers and we see them cancel each other out.

Here they could exchange a shot or two, Bats could get knocked into the jungle while blocking a BP leaping kick, just from the force of it, he rolls with it, and when he recovers he looks around the jungle and there is no sign of BP. He guardedly takes a few steps, and out of no where BP leaps out and slashes bats across the chest emblem, leaving some bloody claw marks. Bats is now standing up, maybe braced against a tree holding BP's wrist to avoid another slashing. This is where we would see the Batmobile come crashing through the jungle at some ridiculous high speed headed towards BP. BP lets go and does a flip over the speeding Batmobile, landing on his feet of course. As they get ready to re-engage, another time disruption hits, re-separating Gotham and Wakanda.
Just a general idea of how it could happen

Beyond that, I hadn't plotted who else would make an appearance, although I had considered maybe having some re-matches within the book, so that maybe I could have the first encounter go one way, and the second go the other, but I think I'm going with having them fight other members early on(Bats-Black Panther),(Supes-Hulk),(Thor-Wonder Woman)

Some other smaller 2-3 page match ups would be:
(Orion vs Hercules, Power Girl vs Warbird , Captain Marvel vs Wonder man)

Some possible villains are:
DC
Despero
Mongul
Darkseid
Time Trapper
Nebula Man
Amazo
Anti Monitor

Marvel
The Celestials
the Collector
Thanos
Galactus
Dr Doom
Kang
Hela

What I could use is some overall plot concepts and character that might be involved.
I will try to take into account some of the fan scenarios when it comes time to do new pages, so if you have a fight scenario or story concept that can be incorporated into the pages I've already done, feel free to post them. I will save them for possible future reference

This project has been in the works for years, and may take many more years, but it will have some fan involvement storywise.

The artwork directory is located at
http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...VS%20AVENGERS/
MAKE SURE TO CLICK ON THE THUMBNAIL FOR A LARGER VIEWING

[hbkabdul]

WOW i really like your pencils they are a lot better than what i was expecting to see. How long does it generally take you to do a page of art work? Have you ever tried submitting your work or doing anything with in comics?

[JAM_ONIT]

Thank you for taking the time to look and reply.

It takes me about 6-8 hours, more or less per page, depending on how much is going on.
I much more prefer pin-up/cover work.

If you go to the main directory, you can access the whole site.
http://www.public.asu.edu/~jcjam

Yes I did pursue a comics career, which ended with a stack of rejection letters, so now I just work on my own projects, and a few outside ones here and there.

[A D]

If I were you I'd keep tryin to break into the industry if thats what you want. Its pretty typical to pick up books and the artist complains about how long it took them to get published and how many rejection letters they recieved.

[Adrian Tullberg]

What sort of plot points are you most interested in?

Individual interactions?

Motives for the two teams to tear into each other?

[JAM_ONIT]

If I were you I'd keep tryin to break into the industry if thats what you want. Its pretty typical to pick up books and the artist complains about how long it took them to get published and how many rejection letters they recieved.

Yes but when you work 40+ hours a week sometimes during the summer and about 30 during the school semester, not much free time for pursuit, maybe in a few years when I graduate and have finished my JLA vs Avengers book, I'll try again.

[JAM_ONIT]

What sort of plot points are you most interested in?

Individual interactions?

Motives for the two teams to tear into each other?

Yes, more along the lines of the overall motivation first, ex; Thanos is trying to use the chronal eggs for a new Infinity gauntlet etc, that type of stuff. Also what villains might be involved and how/why.

[JAM_ONIT]

just finished the Namor/Vision vs Aquaman/Red Tornado fight

http://www.public.asu.edu/~jcjam/sub...%20tornado.htm

[JAM_ONIT]

just got a photobucket account, let's see if i can post one here

[JAM_ONIT]

this is where I'm at as of now for overall battle arrangements.

Fight scenarios- We will see certain characters fight more than once just to give the match-ups we all want to see. ex. Bats will be seen fighting at least 3 times (vs. Black Panther at the beg. of book during time distortion which I have described in my thread, vs Wolverine later, and Cap even later, which is already drawn.

I am thinking that maybe I should have there be 3 sections of battles

1. beginning time distortions-no winners (1-3) pages each on average, depending on which characters involved)
2. tournament style one on one fights - clear victors(1-4 pages on average)
3. pursuing an object as teams and individuals - victory claimed with possesion of the object(1-10 pages on average, except Supes/Thor)

Supes will fight maybe the Hulk in part 1, maybe Sentry or Silver Surfer in part 2, and Thor in part 3

Wonder Woman will face Thor in pt 1 or 2, and She-Hulk in pt 3

Quasar and Green Lantern will meet maybe in pt 1 or 2

Black Widow and Black Canary will meet in either pt 1 or 2

Thor will face Orion in pt 1 or 2

So you have some basics to work with, and some matchups to think about, just remember which battle section your in and the slight boundaries I'm trying to have for them.

[JAM_ONIT]

here are some confirmed fights I am starting to plot out and some of the things that have been suggested to be seen in them:

Daredevil vs Nightwing (Battle section 1 or 2)
- NW noticing through DD's movents he is blind and trying to use a strategy with it

Deathstroke vs Captain America (Battle section 1 or 2)
- shot of Cap blocking power staff blast with shield
- DS using sword and other weapons to counter shield

Wonder Woman vs Thor (Battle section 1 or 2)
- WW using lasso to try and restrain Thor and hammer
- WW deflecting Mjolnir blasts with bracelets

Wolverine vs Batman (Battle section 2)
- Bats using flash bombs
- Bats hurting his hand on Wolvies skull
- Wolvie slicing Bats across chest emblem, also stabbing him in the shoulder pinning him to something
- Bats attaching taser to claws and electrocuting him

[JAM_ONIT]

this has just been suggestedto me elsewhere:

Obvious villains are too easy. My suggestion would be to go for heroes that have something to prove and would provide a new way to approach this type of matchup. Give us people with personal stakes, not cosmic stakes, and you ground it to a very specific ideal.

Who are the failures of the JLA and the Avengers? Who would have something to prove?

Sentry is one hero. Imagine Sentry trying to find a way to avoid the "Void" entity. He was to be the greatest superhero in the Marvel Universe, but the Void destroyed his place in the Marvel Universe. Similarly, Triumph was to become the major hero of the DC Universe, forming the JLA in order to stop aliens, but a time displacement took away his place in the DCUniverse (and Neron's candle gave him more of a horrible place in the DCUniverse).

What if these two characters, one a master of of Super Science and Strength and one a master of Magnetism, find a way to meet and to solve each other's problems. Sentry replaces Triumph at that crucial point in the past and becomes the greatest Superhero ever known in the DCUniverse without the Void to stop him. Triumph uses his super science and his magnetism to become a Super-Science hero in the Marvel Universe, something that he excells in when there is no clear "Superhero" before Captain America comes into the scene.

> 2.fight scenarios- We will see certain characters fight more than once just to give the match-ups we all want to see. ex. Bats will be seen fighting at least 3 times (vs. Black Panther at the beg. of book during time distortion which I have described in my thread, vs Wolverine later, and Cap even later, which is already drawn.
>

So where does the fight scenerios come in? Maybe the switch in time causes other minor switches that screw things up. Captain America appears in Gotham City or Black Panther appears in Gotham or Wolverine shows up in the cave. Maybe these time imbalances happen at different times. At one point Captain America straight from his unfrozen-ness fights a Batman at the beginning of his career (ala Frank Miller Year One Batman). Maybe AzBats fights Wolverine later in the role. Maybe Black Panther fights a Bruce Wayne today through economic or social means...not necessariy a fist-fight but more of a chess battle.

In the background, of course, you'd have some weird clues as to what is going on. in the DCUniverse, we see the nuptuals of Sentry and Lois Lane. Maybe in the Marvel Universe, you have Triumph's Super Science stopping Galactus. These are background things that become more and more in the foreground as the story progresses.

> I am thinking that maybe I should have there be 3 sections of battles
>
> 1. beginning time distortions-no winners (1-3) pages each on average, depending on which characters involved)
> 2. tournament style one on one fights - clear victors(1-4 pages on average)
> 3. pursuing an object as teams and individuals - victory claimed with possesion of the object(1-10 pages on average, except Supes/Thor)
>

The idea of Objects have been done to death. Make it more mysterious instead of glowing orbs or Thor's hammer or somesuch thing. Make it very specific and personal. Make it a mystery. Maybe the objects that are collected (possibly accidentally) are objects that are incidental or hold personal meaning or show off why things are wrong. Maybe some of the objects could be the picture of Captain America's mother (something that was destroyed by the Masters of Evil, but suddenly appears because Triumph was around to stop the Masters of Evil) or Robin's Costume (something that wouldn't be around because Sentry was able to push back time and stop the Joker from killing Jason Todd).

At these points of conflict, objects and things would show up incidentally, that Batman or Black Panther take back because it's out of place. As the story progresses, people actually shift differently to the point where fissures occur in the universe, where people who shouldn't exist exist now. There are people trying to make sense of these items that shouldn't exist but still exist. People like Harbinger at the behest of the Watcher try to make sense of what is gong on to the Universe based on these items. Our heroes get wind of the situation and try to solve the problem.

The core and the resolution of the story comes when the heroes realize what is out of place (namely Triumph and Sentry) and battle these heroes in order to put things back into place. The main problem is that these heroes excell in other universes because their failures in their own universe. Sentry has the Void which stops him from becoming an effective hero and Triumph has his own history in the DCUniverse to contend with that makes him out to be a failure. This makes is hard for the heroes of the Marvel universe to go against Triumph and for the heroes of the DCuniverse to go against Sentry. So the heroes of the respective universes have to figure out a clever way to defeating these villains....which I leave up to you.

This particular plot works well, especially since you've already gotten the figths plotted out with some interesting ideas of time periods (such as when Nightwing was a JLAer or when Daredevil was a part of the Avengers). I figured this would also work to differentiate this story from other DC/Marvel matchups that still revolve around Perez and Thomas's work from JLA/Avengers that was never published.

Is this helpful, or does this take you too far away from the original idea?

- little kon-el

[JAM_ONIT]

It's summertime and I'm back with a few more pages, first up is the Bat/Wolvie fight reloaded, w/ a new page 3 inserted as suggested, and then we join an already in progress- two page Daredevil vs Nightwing match-up.
Hope you enjoy them.

[JAM_ONIT]

[JAM_ONIT]

Here's the originally 2-3 Batman/Black Panther that I scripted about 3-4 years ago. The final version has been altered do include suggestions from Bat82:

The cosmic time disruption has been eradically merging certain places together at the beginning of the book, Batman will have driven the Batmobile down an alley to the edge of where Gotham city has merged into the Wakanda Jungle, this is where Black Panther will sneak up on him and his shadow will be cast on the alley wall, a la Batman how Bats does to street criminals.

Bats will immediately throw some batarangs, and BP would leap at a downward angle from a tree or something, countering with his daggers and we see them cancel each other out.

Here they could exchange a shot or two, Bats could get knocked into the jungle while blocking a BP leaping kick, just from the force of it, he rolls with it, and when he recovers he looks around the jungle and there is no sign of BP. He guardedly takes a few steps, and out of no where BP leaps out and slashes bats across the chest emblem, leaving some bloody claw marks. Bats is now standing up, maybe braced against a tree holding BP's wrist to avoid another slashing. This is where we would see the Batmobile come crashing through the jungle at some ridiculous high speed headed towards BP. BP lets go and does a flip over the speeding Batmobile, landing on his feet of course. As they get ready to re-engage, another time disruption hits, re-separating Gotham and Wakanda.
I've tried to mess with them in photoshop to make them somewhat clearer.