Gail, I'm sure you've seen this but what do you think of Superman's horrible past?

[Kevinroc]

http://superdickery.com/

Some which I think are relevant:

http://superdickery.com/dick/9.html (He's bad here)

http://superdickery.com/dick/13.html (Why isn't Lois going around in that funny looking car thing anymore?)

http://superdickery.com/dick/16.html (Superman once blackmailed Lois)

http://superdickery.com/dick/49.html (Superman's opinion on life support)

http://superdickery.com/dick/51.html (No wonder Batman is so jaded around Superman)

http://superdickery.com/dick/57.html (Post-Crisis stuff. With John Byrne involved.)

http://superdickery.com/dick/77.html (Look how bad he is here)

Gail, look at some of these examples? How exactly can you feel comfortable writing such a character? And you write him as nice? How can that be? :p

[Cam63]

I've often thought Luthor and the others got a bum rap.

Supe's obviously the real villain of the piece.

[PatrickG]

See, I look at those and that's how I think MORE super-heroes need to be on their covers.

[WhiteRose]

There was one where he threatened to kill...or was it rape...Donna Troy. Once I find it I'll link it.

And that was the exact moment Superman changed forever for me. For shame :P

[Cam63]

Anything's better than that EXTREEEEEEMMMMMME !!! over the top crap that was popular to a baffling degree in the '90s.

[WhiteRose]

Found it!

http://www.superdickery.com/dick/113.html

[Cam63]

That certainly aint the Supes I know.

[Noah Johnson]

Anything's better than that EXTREEEEEEMMMMMME !!! over the top crap that was popular to a baffling degree in the '90s.

Anything? Can't go with you there. Sure, the 90s were utter tripe. But some of that 60s stuff, where you could taste the self-loathing coming off the writers and artists... it's like the later Holmes stories, after Doyle started to really, really hate him.

[hellokittykat]

I've never read a Superman book until Gail took over Action Comics, so this is a completely uninformed-stab-in-the-dark guess.

I think since Superman is supposed to be the ultimate boyscout good guy, writers and artists liked to throw these supposed evil Superman stories into the mix to make him more "interesting".

Particularly since these are covers, they were meant to grab someone's attention but saying 'look how baaaaaad Superman is being; you know you wanna see him be baaaad'. I suspect that the stories under these covers don't play out the way that the cover implies.

[Michael P]

There was one where he threatened to kill...or was it rape...Donna Troy. Once I find it I'll link it.

And that was the exact moment Superman changed forever for me. For shame :P

That was actually a mindswap, where the villain was in Supes' body.

[UncleBob]

That was actually a mindswap, where the villain was in Supes' body.

It was DOOM!

Or at least a doombot.

[Adam Crocker]

That was actually a mindswap, where the villain was in Supes' body.

Shush! Putting it in context spoils the fun!

http://superdickery.com/dick/13.html (Why isn't Lois going around in that funny looking car thing anymore?)

Stupid judge slapped down a court order saying that forcing Lois to drive in a bubble car violated her rights as a human being. Stupid, tree-hugging, bleeding-heart human rights activists always spoil Superman's fun!

[Rik]

Many comics in the early Silver Age were done by having the artist draw up a cover first--the more outrageous, the better--and then afterward it was up to the writer to come up with some sort of logical explanation for whatever was happening on that cover.

There was even a contest going on for a while in the Green Lantern book--readers were invited to send in their own drawings for cover ideas. And if your idea was used, I believe the prize was the original Gil Kane artwork for the cover.

And Superman wasn't the only one to occasionally exhibit...shall we say...anti-social behavior. His cousin had a few moments of her own:

http://www.comics.org/graphics/cover.../116_4_307.jpg

http://www.comics.org/graphics/cover.../116_4_365.jpg

http://www.comics.org/graphics/cover..._4_0000313.jpg

http://www.comics.org/graphics/cover..._4_0000324.jpg

http://www.comics.org/graphics/cover..._4_0000336.jpg

http://www.comics.org/graphics/cover..._4_0000262.jpg

http://www.comics.org/graphics/cover.../216_4_169.jpg

http://www.comics.org/graphics/cover.../2033_4_08.jpg

http://www.comics.org/graphics/cover.../98_4_0389.jpg

http://www.comics.org/graphics/cover.../2033_4_10.jpg

[PatrickG]

Might I note that the blonde boy in that last image is Prez Rickard, the teenager who was President of the United States.

I'd pay good money to get that in continuity as something other than a gag, hoax, dream, altered reality or Elseworlds story.

[Gail Simone]

The truth is...

Almost no one at DC or Marvel had a clue about women in those days, as far as I can see. I actually think the situation for women in comics was better during the Golden Age, where at least the characters were solo adventurers conceptually, and a bit more capable.

During the Silver Age, the DC women were awful, and the Marvel characters were worse.

I get the DC thing--most of these editors seem to have been pretty bitter, and it seemed to come out in the work.

But I don't get the Marvel thing. Stan, Jack and Steve were so AMAZINGLY creative, it just baffles me that they couldn't create a decent female between them. And they can't! The truth is, the early Marvel female characters universally SUCK. Susan Storm, Wanda, Wasp...urgh. These aren't characters at all. You have, in the FF, three vibrant, believable characters, and then this wet blanket loser in Sue Storm. Yurgh. And don't get me started on Wanda and Wasp.

It's odd. I don't get how that trio of creators went so far wrong in this area.

Really, other writers came along and did better work with heroines, thankfully, but again, you have to give Chris Claremont props for changing the entire industry in that regard.

I STILL think, X-men and She-Hulk aside, Marvel's female characters mostly suck. The heroines, I mean. They still feel very stilted and cardboard to me, and it's no surprise that the mutant books (which do females much better) attract a large female audience while the rest of the line is virtually a boy's club.

DC is doing much better in this department, I think (again, excepting the very female-friendly mutant books). Greg writes a fantastic Wonder Woman, and Jeph's Supergirl is coming, and Batgirl, and Manhunter, and lots of great supporting characters. I'm sure I'm forgetting some.


But yeah, in general, there was a pretty virulent hatred of women in those books. I find it at turns weirdly funny and strangely irritating.

Best,

Gail