Why are Marvel villains so lame!?

[jackolover]

Really, both companys villains are lame, DC and Marvel. Both sets of villains don't defeat the heroes and are on an endless cycle of conflict for no apparent reason. But, I suppose that's the intrinsic quality of villains as the sounding board for the hero. "I'm a hero because this guys a loser"

For this to change, there would have to be some Norman Osborn going on, on a regular basis. Magneto would have to wrestle control of the Mutants away from Scott Summers, Doom would have to exile the FF to the 5th dimension, and Namor would have to defeat all Navy's and control the seas. These scenarios would make interesting stories, because we would learn a whole lot about the villains and how they would approach the problems of leadership, as distinct from Stark, Richards, and Summers.

[Arbok]

The only villains that have any menace that aren't Dr. Doom are sociopaths like Bullseye and Venom, who have no depth and don't even have an interesting method of madness. They sound like six year olds with murderous impulse control problems.

Magneto? The Lizard? Silver Samurai? Spiral? Nightmare? The Juggernaunt? ...the Sentinels?

None of those fall into the sociopath category, and Magneto is the only one you could argue has "mastermind" card there. All have diverse reasons for crossing the heroes.

[DeadXMan]

Marevl villians will wipe the floor with DC's.

Hell bullseye can take out 3/4 of them with bottle cap

[Mississippienne]

Wow, I always perceived it as being the opposite way 'round from the OP. Aside from Batman and Flash's Rogues and Lex Luthor, who does DC have? A bunch of C-listers with gimmicks.

Marvel's villains go all over the power scale, and most of the major heroes have at least a handful of quality villains. Daredevil probably has the weakest Rogues gallery, but even he has Bullseye, Kingpin, and Typhoid Mary.

Iron Man has a stable of villains who range from megalomaniacal (Mandarin) to suave businessmen (Justin Hammer) to industrial saboteurs (The Ghost) and everything in between.

Spider-man's Rogues are probably the best in comics, at least on par with Batman's.

Marvel also has lots of villain teams, and I'm not just talking about terrorist organizations like AIM and HYDRA. There's also the Serpent's Society, the Masters of Evil, Apocalypse's Horsemen, Sinister Six, etc. Marvel also publishes villain solo minis like MODOK's 11 and Dr. Doom and the Masters of Evil.

[DeadXMan]

Cap nemesis actually Killed him, while batman shot a guy and was transported to the distant future in a different dimension....

[Thanatos]

All Marvel characters are just far, far cooler than DC.

[Alan2099]

Their relationship with the heroes is usually far more than just hero vs. villain, their threat level is across the spectrum, from Superman level threats like Black Adam, to deadly focused like Deathstroke or Shiva, to gentlemen theives like Angle Man or Captain Cold (who sent flowers to Ralph Dibney) to push overs like Crazy Quilt.

Simply put, character wise, it's easy to tell them apart. Yes, some DC writers butcher characters (like how the Catwoman writer screwed up Hugo Strange, Captain Cold, Cheetah and Angle Man in one go), but overall, DC villains have a sense of identity, menace, character and ability.

That's not so with Marvel villains. The only way they get to be threatening is by being a mastermind, 90% of the time. The villains under them are usually interchangable. I mean, no one seems to care that The Hood is bossing around Living Laser, the Wrecking Crew and the Griffen, all villains who could take on an entire Avengers team by themselves, but are just faces in Hood's red shirt army.

And whoever isn't a mastermind is a loser, no matter how high they might have been. Black Tarantula went from beating Spider-Man twice, being a South American crime lord with a mysterious past to being a two bit gang leader effortlessly nearly killed by Bullseye. Puma, introduced as a highly skilled mercenary, was stripped of his power. Hell, Joe Casey wrote a three issue Iron Man mini series that stripped Spy Master and Ghost of their credability and no one gave it a second thought.

The only villains that have any menace that aren't Dr. Doom are sociopaths like Bullseye and Venom, who have no depth and don't even have an interesting method of madness. They sound like six year olds with murderous impulse control problems.

I want villains that act differently, that act as foils and have actual personalities. DC has that. It's their heroes that are too stoic for me, honestly.

At this point, I'm convinced that you haven't read marvel in the last ... ever.

So there's really not much point talking with you, as you're going to blatantly ignore characters personality, group people together based on nothing that actually happens in the books, and say that certain villains or acts don't count because they fall into such and such category, which are really the same type of categories that DC villains fall in.

[striderhirryu2]

Their relationship with the heroes is usually far more than just hero vs. villain

Elektra, Xanadarian Worldmind, Gladiator(Sh'iar guardsman this time) Red Skull

their threat level is across the spectrum, from Superman level threats like Black Adam, to deadly focused like Deathstroke or Shiva, to gentlemen theives like Angle Man or Captain Cold (who sent flowers to Ralph Dibney) to push overs like Crazy Quilt.

Superman threats: Vulcan, Morgan Le Fey
Deadly Focused : Batroc the Leaper, Bullseye
Gentleman thieves: Got me can't think of any
Pushover: Shocker, Electro,

Simply put, character wise, it's easy to tell them apart.

That's not so with Marvel villains. The only way they get to be threatening is by being a mastermind, 90% of the time. The villains under them are usually interchangable.

Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus, The Vulture, Mysterio.Kraven the Hunter, The Lizard. Not interchangeable. Only one that's really a mastermind is Norman Osborn and maybe Doctor Octopus.

The only villains that have any menace that aren't Dr. Doom are sociopaths like Bullseye and Venom, who have no depth and don't even have an interesting method of madness. They sound like six year olds with murderous impulse control problems.

Mr. Fear made totally outmaneuvered Daredevil by making his wife insane and went to jail, accomplishing everything he set out to.

Wolverine's son Daken just stole the only weapon in the world capable of killing Wolverine.

Juggernaut is just an unstoppable force of nature that hates his half brother and does whatever he wants.



Also, your definition of mastermind is vague as all hell. Anyone with a plan can be a mastermind. Shocker robbing a bank and then sliding through a secret tunnel that only he knows about is Shocker masterminding a a heist.

[Croxx]

Actually the X-Men did battle Doctor Doom (or a Doombot) before in Uncanny X-Men (I think Arcade also appeared in that book). And Magneto appeared in the Fantastic Four before and was defeated by them.

Marvel has been running their comics as a Mutant/Non Mutant and never the two shall meet sort of house.


For instance, why doesnt Doctor Doom ever face the X-Men? Why doesnt Magneto ever get thwarted by the Fantastic Four? Because Marvel made the decision about a decade ago, that they were not going to mix and match their heroes and villains. This has seriously limited the stories that can be told, and has frankly made Marvel less realistic in the last few years. Oh there is an attempt by Magneto or Mr Sinister or Apocalypse to take over the world. Where the hell are the Fantastic Four or The Avengers? No where to be seen, and nothing that happens in these stories impacts the other non mutant comics.


It used to be that Marvel was famous for their casual cross overs. But not anymore. Its almost like its two different comic book companies....The X-Men family...and everyone else.

DC spends a lot of time with their top of the line heroes facing various top of the line villains. Superman has dealt with The Joker...Batman has crossed swords with Luthor.


I am not making any comparisons between the worth of the characters...this has been an editorial decision by Marvel, and in my opinion it has weakened the overall Marvel universe quite a bit.

[The Cool Thatguy]

At this point, I'm convinced that you haven't read marvel in the last ... ever.

So there's really not much point talking with you, as you're going to blatantly ignore characters personality, group people together based on nothing that actually happens in the books, and say that certain villains or acts don't count because they fall into such and such category, which are really the same type of categories that DC villains fall in.

You're convinced of a fact easily disproved with no basis in reality whatsoever. Given your counter points, I'm not surprised.

[mikekerr3]

Magneto? The Lizard? Silver Samurai? Spiral? Nightmare? The Juggernaunt? ...the Sentinels?

None of those fall into the sociopath category, and Magneto is the only one you could argue has "mastermind" card there. All have diverse reasons for crossing the heroes.

I agree with one exception, the Sentinals work for bigoted Sociopaths.

[Blind pugh]

Gentleman thieves: Got me can't think of any

Black Fox!

[pharoahe22]

Doctor Doom, Kang, Ultron, Galactus, Annihilus, Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister, Baron Zemo, the Kingpin, Magneto, Mandarin, Red Skull, the Wizard, Loki, Nefaria, Thanos, Sabretooth, Venom, Norman Osborn/Green Goblin/Iron Patriot, Hydra, Aim, The Hand, Juggernaut, The Sentinels, Dr. Octopus, The Dark Avengers, The Hood, Dormmamu, Mephisto, Shi’ar’s Imperial Guard, The Skrulls…Honestly I don’t think it’s even close. Marvel’s villains are far more powerful….and they seem like more of a threat and come off as better villains IMO. DC’s villains are fun, but sometimes, I can’t realistically see Superman being threatened by the villains he’s facing. I never take Penguin or the Riddler seriously as much as I like them. Same goes for most of Flash’s villains outside of Zoom and a few others. DC has some big ones like Sinestro, the Joker, Lex Luthor...but as far as credible threats with clearly defined characters, Marvel takes it.

Someone was mentioning a lack of depth in Marvel’s villains, but what villains in all of comicdom have more depth than Dr. Doom, Magneto, Thanos, Norman Osborn, etc? Sabretooth is also way underrated as a complicated foe…he’s actually similar to the Joker. Sabretooth and Wolverine’s conflict stems from the fact that Sabretooth sees Wolverine, in his own sick, twisted way, as a playmate. He gets off of pushing Wolverine’s buttons, mostly because he sees in Wolverine what he could have been if he hadn’t let his rage get the best of him. He wants to prove to himself and everyone else that he’s better than Wolverine…and his goal is to try to bring Wolverine down to his level. Strip him of his honor, and what makes him a hero. “You’re no better than me Logan…you’re just like me…you’re an animal, and I’ll prove it to you by torturing you and killing everyone you love…then we’ll see who you really are”. Wolverine and Sabretooth are exactly like each other in every way, except Logan became something better, and Sabretooth chose to be a murderer. That bugs Sabretooth. He’s basically doing the same thing as the joker though. Joker loves Batman as a playmate, because he wants to prove to Batman that he’s just a freak like him, and that life is a joke. That’s basically the same thing Sabretooth’s doing.

[Alan2099]

You're convinced of a fact easily disproved with no basis in reality whatsoever. Given your counter points, I'm not surprised.

Then disprove me, because you obviously ain't done it so far and you've got a ton more people disagreeing with you than agreeing.

[celticguy]

DC have better villians than Marvel?!

Besides some cool villians Batman have,DC is not even close in having cool villians as Marvel have.

Just the Spider-Man villians are almost enough to all DC villians.

And if i throw villians as Thanos,Galactus,Leader,Doc Doom,Mandarim,Red Skrull,Juggernaut,Magneto (to name a few) in the mix,there is not really competition from the DC villians side.

Isn't Thanos just Marvel Darkseid?

I think has a better pool of Arch villains Pretty much every mainstay book has at least one or two solid villian.

DC is lacking in this area. None of the Green Arrow, Booster Gold, and Blue Beetle books for three examples, have the heavyweight villains that they should have.

Of course you could say the same about Moonknight and some others in Marvel as well.

I would take the Legion of Doom over the brother hood of mutants or masters of evil however.