Why are Marvel villains so lame!?

[Omega Alpha]

Emma Frost is evil. And I think she is still a villain at heart.

If Emma Frost had been reformed before 1991, i bet all the money in my pockets (not much, you know, though times:( ) that you would never say that:rolleyes:

[Grazzt]

If Emma Frost had been reformed before 1991, i bet all the money in my pockets (not much, you know, though times:( ) that you would never say that:rolleyes:

I don't know, there aren't that many reformed villains who can boast of a villainous record like Emma's.

[Wild Card13]

One facet of the criminal underworld Marvel portrays very well, in my opinion, is the mercenary circuit. Deadpool, Bullseye, Taskmaster, Elektra...All great, solid characters. In particular, Taskmaster really breaks the villainous mold because instead of being out there to cause maximum damage, he wants to cause maximum profit, to the extent where he'll flee from a fight he can probably win if it means more money for him. Just look how he was recently in Moon Knight.

I've found Marvel's villains to be deeper, more developed characters than their counterparts in DC. Beyond Lex Luthor and the Bat-Rogues, there are very few villains DC has in its stable that can match the characterization Marvel has achieved, in my opinion. I suppose the other major exception would be this newest incarnation of the Secret Six, which was a great concept: take a bunch of B- and C-listers and make them a really credible fighting force. Kind of like Nextwave, but less funny.

I don't really like the notion of a massive good guys-vs-bad guys throwdown, though. I think that's something more for the DC Universe (Battle of Metropolis). Plus, Marvel's villains are too divided and fractured (and some of them are too heroic) to really go along with that for too long. I find Civil War to be a far superior product to Infinite Crisis, and the villains are barely playing a role. I've always been a sucker for good villains, so I hope we see them doing something in the MU soon, though. With so many solid villains either reformed or out of commission right now, Marvel is long overdue for some new baddies, as well as the re-emergence of the old favorites.

[eggie]

"Why are Marvel villians so lame?"...because Geoff Johns isn't writing them! ;)

[Xothermic]

...because Geoff Johns isn't writing them! ;)

Ha. It's true though. Flash's villains stock rose in just one run!

[StoneGold]

Let's see, what's to stop them from taking Nefaria out of comic book limbo? The Leader is still around, I think. The Mad Thinker is still active, though the best he did was make Thing move to France. What about Shaw, couldn't he do something with this?

As Ultron, he has been deactivated a million times already, why would hs latest "death" stop him? What about Kang, there could always be another Kang hanging around in the time stream.

Plus Doom and the Red Skull are still around. Heck even a goober like the Wizard should be able to do something.

Thing is, a lot of the people you have just mentioned have either been specifically written out of the plot, or this kind of thing just isn't their MO. Doom and Skull have specifically been written as just sitting this one out for right now till they see their opening. Kang won't usually strike at his foes' most weakest time, unless he caused it in the first place. Remember, conquering is basically one big game for Kang. He's purely in it for the ego boost. Shaw only really does mutanty things, Ultron is still deactivated (and going "well couldn't he just reactivate for this event" is really crap logic), Leader I think is dead again, and generally only futzes around with the Hulk... shall I keep going?

[Wild Card13]

Ultron recently showed up in the pages of Runaways, actually.

[Expletive Deleted]

Ultron recently showed up in the pages of Runaways, actually.

And was deactivated there, as I recall.

[Wild Card13]

And was deactivated there, as I recall.

Oh, I know. Just wanted to point that out.

[DDM]

If Emma Frost had been reformed before 1991, i bet all the money in my pockets (not much, you know, though times:( ) that you would never say that:rolleyes:

Emma Frost's actions speak for themselves. Her villain past is very difficult rationalize today because Frost seems to be exploiting the X-Men for her own selfish reasons.

Can Emma Frost be redeemed into a hero? Sure. But the way Marvel went about it--ignoring her evil plans as the White Queen--by making her found Generation X & eventually join the X-Men is just wrong. Therefore, I believe Emma Frost is still irredeemably evil to this day.

Asking Emma Frost to join the X-Men is the equivilant of asking Mister Sinister, Apocalypse, Selene, the Shadow King, Elias Bogan, & Sebastian Shaw to join the team. It does not make any sense!

[Norrin Radd]

I've always preferred Marvel villains. In term of villainous stature, there's just not much left at DC after you account for Batman's and Superman's rogues (in fact, Superman doesn't have many really great villains which is why Bruce Timm and co. put in so much Darkseid in the TAS). Look at the archenemies for DC's other main characters: Wonder Woman has Cheetah, Aquaman has Black Manta, Flash has Captain Cold, GL has Sinestro, and Captain Marvel has Sivana. The only one I'll give you is Deathstroke for the Titans. He's cool. Other than that...big deal! :o

In contrast, even if you ignore the host of great Spidey and X-Men foes, you've got the Red Skull for Cap, Loki for Thor, Kingpin/Bullseye for DD, Doctor frickin' Doom for FF, Mandarin for Iron Man, Abomination for Hulk, Ultron for the Avengers, etc. etc.

I don't know...am I off base here?

[Alan2099]

Can Emma Frost be redeemed into a hero? Sure. But the way Marvel went about it--ignoring her evil plans as the White Queen--by making her found Generation X & eventually join the X-Men is just wrong. Therefore, I believe Emma Frost is still irredeemably evil to this day.

Actually, I thought she was quite redeemable in Generation X. she defintley showed signs that she was sorry about what happened and frightened by her own mortality and afradi of repeating past mistakes, yet att he same time, she didn't want to admit to anybody that she was going soft or was any deeper than she seemed at first glance. She was mellowing out and aging and seemed on the road to herodom there until they put her on the X-men and ignored every bit of character grwoth she went though.

[StoneGold]

Can Emma Frost be redeemed into a hero? Sure. But the way Marvel went about it--ignoring her evil plans as the White Queen--by making her found Generation X & eventually join the X-Men is just wrong. Therefore, I believe Emma Frost is still irredeemably evil to this day.

And yet you throw a fit when someone doesn't ignore the first decade or so of Magneto stories.

[Erebus]

Their are plenty of villains with sound really lame, but once you read their stories, they're actually really cool. Doctor Octopus, Bi-Beast, Fu Manchu, Galactus, Maestro, and various others either look or sound lame, but are really cool.

[DDM]

And yet you throw a fit when someone doesn't ignore the first decade or so of Magneto stories.

Magneto's past is constantly used in the backdrop of his character from metamorphosis from villain to hero; Magneto's character development changed with Uncanny X-Men #150 (when he almost killed Kitty) to being an X-Man in Uncanny X-Men #200. That's 50 issues not including Marvel Graphic Novel #5: God Loves, Man Kills & his character development in The New Mutants.

Emma Frost's only regret is that her Hellions died in Uncanny X-Men #281; therefore, Emma joins forces with Xavier (after she wakes from her telepathic induced coma in Uncanny X-Men #314)??? It does not make sense. One day Emma Frost is the Hellfire Club's White Queen, the next she founds Generation X. Where's the character development for Emma Frost's transformation from villain to hero? There isn't any. Frost decides to ally herself with Xavier after Fitroy kills her Hellions.