Why are Marvel villains so lame!?

[Zeeguy91]

This thread makes me laugh. Until Lex Luthor finds out Superman's secret id and torments his loved ones, similiar to what Green Goblin or the Kingpin have done throughout the years. I won't consider DC having the better villains.

Well, Lex was the President for a time and even though he didn't know Superman's identity, he was still able to make his life hell by declaring him an enemy of the state. Joker killed Jason Todd and paralyzed Barabara Gordon, without even knowing that she was Batgirl. Mongul and Cyborg Superman destroyed all of Coast City, eventually causing Hal Jordan to go crazy, etc. DC kinda has proven that the villain doesn't need to know who the hero is to make them miserable and to really impact their lives. But DC does still have villains who do know the hero's identity, like Ra's al Ghul, Darkseid, Professor Zoom, Black Adam, and (my personal favorite) Sinestro that do know the hero's personal identities and make the hero's lives hell. I mean, Professor Zoom killed Barry's wife, Sinestro planted Parallax within Hal and manipulated him in the aftermath of Coast City's destruction, Ra's was able to take down the entire Justice League by taking files from Batman's personal computer, etc.

So, while I'm don't support the contention that Marvel villains are "lame", I would say that DC villains tend to be more successful and/or fundamentally impact the lives of the heroes on a more regular basis.

[SpideyCzar]

Well, Lex was the President for a time and even though he didn't know Superman's identity, he was still able to make his life hell by declaring him an enemy of the state. Joker killed Jason Todd and paralyzed Barabara Gordon, without even knowing that she was Batgirl. Mongul and Cyborg Superman destroyed all of Coast City, eventually causing Hal Jordan to go crazy, etc. DC kinda has proven that the villain doesn't need to know who the hero is to make them miserable and to really impact their lives. But DC does still have villains who do know the hero's identity, like Ra's al Ghul, Darkseid, Professor Zoom, Black Adam, and (my personal favorite) Sinestro that do know the hero's personal identities and make the hero's lives hell. I mean, Professor Zoom killed Barry's wife, Sinestro planted Parallax within Hal and manipulated him in the aftermath of Coast City's destruction, Ra's was able to take down the entire Justice League by taking files from Batman's personal computer, etc.

So, while I'm don't support the contention that Marvel villains are "lame", I would say that DC villains tend to be more successful and/or fundamentally impact the lives of the heroes on a more regular basis.

Great points, I'm not saying the DCU villains are below Marvel villains. But imagine just how much trouble Lex could cause if he knew the wrost kept secret identity in comics, Clark Kent is Superman. I just find it silly that Lois Lane can figure it out but a supposed Genius level villain in Lex can't?

[Zeeguy91]

Great points, I'm not saying the DCU villains are below Marvel villains. But imagine just how much trouble Lex could cause if he knew the wrost kept secret identity in comics, Clark Kent is Superman. I just find it silly that Lois Lane can figure it out but a supposed Genius level villain in Lex can't?

True, true, but you should take into account that Lois knows Clark on a far more personal level than Lex does. I've only ever really seen Lex interact with Clark on a few select occasions, one of which took place while Clark's powers were MIA in the aftermath of Infinite Crisis. So, I can see how Lex wouldn't be able to figure it out.

And true, Lex would be able to do SOOOO much if he knew Clark was Superman, which is probable why DC hasn't allowed that to happen yet.

[SpideyCzar]

True, true, but you should take into account that Lois knows Clark on a far more personal level than Lex does. I've only ever really seen Lex interact with Clark on a few select occasions, one of which took place while Clark's powers were MIA in the aftermath of Infinite Crisis. So, I can see how Lex wouldn't be able to figure it out.

And true, Lex would be able to do SOOOO much if he knew Clark was Superman, which is probable why DC hasn't allowed that to happen yet.

I just think that's one of the untold stories waiting to be told and it could be a tragically epic story if ever told. The sheer terror Lex could cause the Man of Steel would be terrifying. But I def see your points of the proximity of Lois & Clark's interactions to Lex & Clark's interactions.

[Alex6166]

Magneto is the best comic book villian of all time!

[Hulk_Is]

I don't mind that Marvel's villains seem to be so lame because I don't read their comics for their villains. DC has some villains I respect though.

[manymade1]

IMHO Marvel had better villains from Silver to the bronze age but I have to agree with you on alot of modern Marvel villains being crap.

[Ian Pressman]

Marvel's top villains aren't lame; they're just so overused that people get sick of them. The problem is the fans. Whenever a writer attempts to introduce a new character or to push lesser villains up a rung like Norman Osborn, Sinn, or Doc Ock, the fans revolt. No food like comfort food.

[Zeeguy91]

I wouldn't call Norman Osborn or Doc Ock "lesser" villains. I'd say they're right up there with Magneto and Dr. Doom. But I do agree that DC in my opinion has been able to showcase its lesser known villains a lot more successfully. I mean, look at Sinestro. He was a B-list villain like 10 years ago, but now a LOT of people consider him A-list. Same with Black Adam. And now Johns is trying to do the same with Black Manta and personally I think he'll probably pull it off.

[Zeeguy91]

Magneto is the best comic book villian of all time!

Not since he joined the X-Men he isn't.

[Zeeguy91]

I just think that's one of the untold stories waiting to be told and it could be a tragically epic story if ever told. The sheer terror Lex could cause the Man of Steel would be terrifying. But I def see your points of the proximity of Lois & Clark's interactions to Lex & Clark's interactions.

I would be so down with the story you described. I would love if, even for just a brief moment, Lex knew Clark's secret. But if they did do that, I think DC would need a way to make him forget as soon as possible. The same happened with Spider-Man. He revealed his identity to everyone in Civil War and then...in walks Mephisto. I think if DC did something like they did on the Smallville TV show, that would be great. If you don't know what I'm talking about: in that show, Lex actually discovered the truth about Clark's powers and knew for years, but then in the series finale, someone he knows (I won't reveal who) exposes him to a special....substance (that's the best word to describe it) that when absorbed through the skin, has the tendency to erase memories (or at least particular memories).

[Lord Bravery]

Marvel's top villains aren't lame; they're just so overused that people get sick of them. The problem is the fans. Whenever a writer attempts to introduce a new character or to push lesser villains up a rung like Norman Osborn, Sinn, or Doc Ock, the fans revolt. No food like comfort food.

Well said.

But overall, my favourite villains are mainly Marvel. Thanos, Dr Doom, Annihilus, Kang, Ultron, Loki, Red Skull, Green Goblin, Doc Ock.

DC? Joker, Lex Luthor and Flash's Rogues. That's pretty much it. Darkseid would be there, but he hasn't really done fuck all since the Great Darkness Saga. I don't count Final Crisis because that was a jumbled mess and he only took over Earth with the Omega Sanction? Setting your sights a little low ain't ya? haha

[Telos]

How did this thread take 14 pages over seven years? Marvel has a huge stable of villains. Some of them are really cheesy, lame, and useful only as cannon fodder. Most of them are powerful characters with intriguing personalities and believable motivations.

Case in point: Baron Zemo, Loki, Magneto, Doctor Doom, Kang, Ultron, Norman Osborn...

[XPac]

Personally I do think marvel has the best villains in comics. Doom, Magneto, and Thanos IMO (I'm sure plenty of DC guys will disagree) put their DC counter parts to shame.

But generally speaking, I do think villains in comics in general have a difficult time not coming off lame because essentially they lose 99% of the time. How do you come off looking like a credible threat when you've already lost 5 million times in a row to the guy you're fighting?

Guys like Doom and Mags are to a degree protected by writers, which is why they have the cred they do which allows them to actually be effective in stories. But they're more the exceptions than the rule. Frankly I think writers should have villains win more. Obviously they have to lose in the end... but you start getting diminishing returns if you don't invest some effort into making the villains actually seem like credible threats to the heroes. And that's almost impossible if they can't occasionally get a check in the win column.

[Zeeguy91]

Personally I do think marvel has the best villains in comics. Doom, Magneto, and Thanos IMO (I'm sure plenty of DC guys will disagree) put their DC counter parts to shame.

See, I could maybe be persuaded to agree with you on Doom and Magneto. Emphasis on maybe because I hardly think anyone can put Lex Luthor, Joker, or Sinestro to shame. However, absolutely, unequivocally NO to Thanos. Thanos IMO is a cheap and uninteresting rip off of Darkseid in practically every way possible.

But generally speaking, I do think villains in comics in general have a difficult time not coming off lame because essentially they lose 99% of the time. How do you come off looking like a credible threat when you've already lost 5 million times in a row to the guy you're fighting?

You know how? When the villain actually succeeds sometimes like when they kill a sidekick (Joker), destroy an entire city (Mongul and Cyborg Superman), kill a girlfriend/wife (Green Goblin/Zoom), or commit mass genocide (Ultron).