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  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    What I see is some space between his right hand and her chin. A neck is located BELOW a chin, not a few inches to the left. So he's starting to break his grip because of the eye-gouging. That's the ONLY explanation to why her hands are free next!
    Because she can NOT open a box when her hands are NOT free. The text says it all. "...Have to FREE my HANDS--" "--BREAK his GRIP--"
    We have already established that one of her hands is alraedy free in the third panel. That's enough to get the K out.


    And even if you were right. Superman could push her again had it not been for the K. Remember that this discussion started because Vanguard claimed that the K was useless and did not affect the fight at all. The fourth panel where Superman reels because of the K says otherwise.
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  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by super1man View Post
    No, Superman is still strangling her till the third panel. She can open the K box with one hand, its very easy to do so. Then Superman reels after K exposure.

    If the K was not there Superman would have pushed her into the Sun. Even if she manages to break the grip somehow (which she did not), if k was not there, Superman could have easily tried again.

    And I still see the right hand on her neck.
    His grip is already giving - you can see his right hand has relaxed its grip, because his thumb is no longer squarely under her jaw. As she wrenches his neck around, pinching the nerves, he is momentarily stunned.

    Not much earlier than this we saw this scene...



    Rucka was likely guided by this idea that Superman can not only have the ring close to him without being rendered instantly helpless but can actually wear the damn thing and use it to punch out Supergirl. Personally I think that's nonsense, but it sets a precedent. So I say the intention of the writer is that she pulls him off her by strength and skill alone, and he slugs her before the ring can starts to impair him.
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  3. #378
    French-Canadian Frank Fournier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by super1man View Post
    We have already established that one of her hands is alraedy free in the third panel. That's enough to get the K out.
    Her hand is getting free because his grip is breaking and his grip is giving because of the eye-gouging. The fact that his head is moving to his left is showing how it's affecting him. That's how she saved herself from a one way trip to the sun. Without the eye-gouging, there's no K to use as her hands are NOT free.
    Last edited by Frank Fournier; 02-19-2014 at 02:34 AM.
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  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    His grip is already giving - you can see his right hand has relaxed its grip, because his thumb is no longer squarely under her jaw. As she wrenches his neck around, pinching the nerves, he is momentarily stunned.

    Not much earlier than this we saw this scene...



    Rucka was likely guided by this idea that Superman can not only have the ring close to him without being rendered instantly helpless but can actually wear the damn thing and use it to punch out Supergirl. Personally I think that's nonsense, but it sets a precedent. So I say the intention of the writer is that she pulls him off her by strength and skill alone, and he slugs her before the ring can starts to impair him.
    Then why even show us the damned ring. That's not how stories works.
    Superman reeled because of the ring. The scan you showed was by a different writer and with a determined Superman versus this mind controlled emotionally wrecked Superman who just witnessed his wife's brutal murder.
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  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    Her hand is getting free because his grip is breaking and his grip is giving because of the eye-gouging. The fact that his head is moving to his left is showing how it's affecting him. That's how she saved herself from a one way trip to the sun. Without the eye-gouging, there's no K to use as her hands are NOT free.
    Like I said before one of her hands are free. That's enough to get the K out.

    And once again:

    And even if you were right. Superman could push her again had it not been for the K. Remember that this discussion started because Vanguard claimed that the K was useless and did not affect the fight at all. The fourth panel where Superman reels because of the K says otherwise.
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  6. #381
    French-Canadian Frank Fournier's Avatar
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    Exclamation Ha!

    Quote Originally Posted by super1man View Post
    The scan you showed was by a different writer
    It's not "All continuities allowed" anymore?
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  7. #382
    French-Canadian Frank Fournier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by super1man View Post
    Like I said before one of her hands are free. That's enough to get the K out.[/B]
    Like I said before one of her hands is free because of the eye-gouging.
    And really you think he'd catch her with the same move again? Back on Earth he wasn't able to push her anymore.
    Last edited by Frank Fournier; 02-19-2014 at 02:49 AM.
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  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    It's not "All continuities allowed" anymore?
    Yes, all continuities allowed but you know as well as I that not every writers write every characters at the same power levels. This thread is to check consistency other than anything else. Mark Waid thinks Captain Marvel beats WW, Gail Simone thinks the reverse. So you cannot bring the work of two different writers to claim a IMPLIES logic.

    Why are you feeling the need to twist my words anyway? That's dirty way to fight and like I explained does not even jive with waht I said.
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  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    Like I said before one of her hands is free because of the eye-gouging.
    And really you think he'd catch her with the same move again? Back on Earth he wasn't able to push her anymore.
    So? I already agreed she got one hand free. Where did I say both her hand were occupied? Why are you repeating the same thing again and again when I already gave you that?
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  10. #385
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    Rehire Grant Morrison for Superman.
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  11. #386
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    From JLA-Avengers crossover:

    Rehire Grant Morrison for Superman.
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  12. #387
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    Rehire Grant Morrison for Superman.
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  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by super1man View Post
    Like I said before one of her hands are free. That's enough to get the K out.

    And once again:

    And even if you were right. Superman could push her again had it not been for the K. Remember that this discussion started because Vanguard claimed that the K was useless and did not affect the fight at all. The fourth panel where Superman reels because of the K says otherwise.
    In my previous post I said that the hand with whom she took the box (the right one) is the one which is not still free in the third panel... ( the free hand is the left one, with whom she is pushing his head away, the right one is still closing his eyes).

    About the fact that he could've pushed her again, I have some doubt. When he did it in this issue, he began to attack while she was talking with Maxwell Lord, and so he had already acquired a certain speed.





    Anyway, what could have happened are only suppositions. We don't know, as we don't know what really happened between the third and the fourth panel of the page where she broke free from his grip.
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  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackFeath View Post
    In my previous post I said that the hand with whom she took the box (the right one) is the one which is not still free in the third panel... ( the free hand is the left one, with whom she is pushing his head away, the right one is still closing his eyes).

    About the fact that he could've pushed her again, I have some doubt. When he did it in this issue, he began to attack while she was talking with Maxwell Lord, and so he had already acquired a certain speed.



    Anyway, what could have happened are only suppositions. We don't know, as we don't know what really happened between the third and the fourth panel of the page where she broke free from his grip.
    I think this 'sacrifice' thing has DERAILED the thread enough. I had said in my first post that direct comparison between Superman and WW and their direct fights are not allowed anyway.

    Lets just say that I do not agree with you and if you still want to discuss it make another thread in Superman board and I will happily discuss it with you.

    So let us not derail this thread further. After all this thread is about FEATS not one specific fight/feat.
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  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by super1man View Post
    Then why even show us the damned ring. That's not how stories works.
    Superman reeled because of the ring. The scan you showed was by a different writer and with a determined Superman versus this mind controlled emotionally wrecked Superman who just witnessed his wife's brutal murder.
    He showed us the ring because Wonder Woman reached for it. Thus her hands were not free to block his punch.

    There are lots of stories where the characters come up with a plan that doesn't pan out. Its a way of upping the emotional ante - if Diana can just get the ring to him fast enough, she thinks she has this beat, but it fails. Rucka is setting up for the last page where he has Wonder Woman snap Lord's neck. Its his attempt to show that she had run out of other options.

    Quote Originally Posted by super1man View Post
    I think this 'sacrifice' thing has DERAILED the thread enough. I had said in my first post that direct comparison between Superman and WW and their direct fights are not allowed anyway.

    Lets just say that I do not agree with you and if you still want to discuss it make another thread in Superman board and I will happily discuss it with you.

    So let us not derail this thread further. After all this thread is about FEATS not one specific fight/feat.
    By the strength of your own logic, there is no more amazing feat than beating Superman.

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