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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSimonHurt View Post
    In the legal sense, the Joker is insane.

    He is not a psychopath, though. He has no pathological tendency. He doesn't fit the definition of a psychopath.

    He's technically a new thing. Supersane is the word that's been used to describe him. He's able to shed collective memory and experience and re-invent on the spot. In that sense, he's a lot like Batman from the other direction. He's a human hyper-adapter that out-witted the real hyper-adapter.
    How is Joker legally insane? I don't see a whole lot of evidence that Joker cannot tell the difference between right and wrong, I see more evidence can tell the difference, but chooses not to care, therefore he is legally sane. Really, not many insane people are capable of the level of planning Joker engages in.

    And for this talk about Joker remaking his personality all the time, we never see, he is almost always same nihilistic monster he always is, he might just might have different theme on that this week. Superficial things change, the core personality stays the same, when he is last time we say a harmless Joker or even helpful Joker? The personality doesn't really change. He is not "super sane" that just seems like a con on his part.

    There are lots of psychopathic aspects to Joker's personality, look at these aspects and tell me Joker doesn't fit into a lot of them:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy#Measurement

  2. #17
    New Member TheBatseer's Avatar
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    As far as I know, he was created to be an extremely brilliant master criminal with sadistic sense of humor, and, at lest back then, he was defined as a psychopath. But after the whole business with the Comics Code of Authority when he was watered down to a silly clown criminal that stood out for the use of jokes on his crimes and had to lose in the end, he hasn't really had a set ideology, for lack of a better word. The defining aspects of the character shift from story to story and writer to writer, but I think you can still say he is consistently a psychopath, even with different traits.

  3. #18

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    Dude is batshit (haha) crazy but also knows that the things he does are illegal, so psycopath. At least, my understanding of criminally insane is someone who doesn't understand that what they do is wrong and/or illegal. Joker strikes me as being very aware that what he does is against the law, he just doesn't care or agree that it should be illegal.

  4. #19
    King of Frost Giants King Laufey's Avatar
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    According to this he suffers from Anti Social Personality Disorder

  5. #20
    Super Amalgamated! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Hes' generically evil.
    Highly Evolved Creature Totally Orientated on Revenge.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Laufey View Post
    According to this he suffers from Anti Social Personality Disorder
    Yeah, but you can label anything a mental illness if you analyze it with the necessary bias.

  7. #22
    Veteran Member Sonofspam's Avatar
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    I def think he knows right from wrong and i think he enjoys being bad/evil.

  8. #23

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    The Joker always seems fully aware of right and wrong as concepts - but if he cares at all, it's merely so that he can choose the more evil option in any given situation. There is always the debate as to how much of his character is real at any one time as opposed to an acted persona, or genuine delusion, but just for example I can't see any psychologist/judge/jury buying that he wasn't fully aware and in control when he (for example) beat Jason to death, or any other number of crimes.

    Maybe some would be handwaved with insanity/temporary insanity, but the sheer volume and variety of crimes dictates that surely somewhere along the line, he would be found A) sane and B) guilty, and executed. He's crazy -but he's not insane, not in the way that would get him off the hook judicially. Plenty of diagnosed psychopaths have been jailed or killed as punishment for their crimes before, the insanity plea is used very rarely and works even less.

  9. #24
    King of Frost Giants King Laufey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSimonHurt View Post
    Yeah, but you can label anything a mental illness if you analyze it with the necessary bias.
    True to be honest I've always had three theories surrounding Joker

    Theory 1: He suffers from multiple disorders and mental illness and because of how each one affects him he only appears to be "supersane" and is really the result of having more disorders and illnesses than any one in history.

    Theory 2: He's not really human but really the embodiment of Chaos and Madness and he's just toying with mortals like Batman to pass the time.

    Theory 3: This just purely based on the Killing Joke but I think that Joker after losing his family and being disfigured blames Batman for some reason and after going insane seeks to destroy the target of all his pain or have that target kill him. However Batman refuses to kill so they are both trapped in a eternal loop.

  10. #25
    Super Amalgamated! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Theory 3: This just purely based on the Killing Joke but I think that Joker after losing his family and being disfigured blames Batman for some reason and after going insane seeks to destroy the target of all his pain or have that target kill him. However Batman refuses to kill so they are both trapped in a eternal loop.
    Going Sane would (sort of) support that theory. When he believes he's killed Batman he goes, "huh? Well, I guess that's it. Show's over," and stops being Joker.
    Highly Evolved Creature Totally Orientated on Revenge.

  11. #26
    Elder Member Wjowski's Avatar
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    'Insanity' is a legal term, not a clinical one. And in a non-comic book legal system, Joker would not qualify as insane.

  12. #27
    just does things Vil_Dee's Avatar
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    He hasn't been depicted in comics as just a mere theatrical sociopath in a long time. In recent times, he has been depicted as delusional and completely out of touch with reality. (ie. cutting off your face to show someone who you think is mutually in love with you that you're the only other person in existence who's not wearing a mask; or going through imaginary metamorphases where you act like you've become a different version of the same person or someone else entirely)


    The argument that he is just a sociopath posing as a crazy person in order to avoid life in prison or the death penalty is refuted in the Spectre issue where he goes into his mind and discovers that his wiring is all screwed up; or the fact that J'onzz, in rock of ages, has to both reshape his own brain to make it like an insane person in order to get through the maze that Joker created with his mind, as well as reshape Joker's brain to make him sane and makes him feel bad for what he did (sociopaths don't have a conscience); or in Last Laugh where they have a scan of his brain and comment on how totally abnormal it is; or that issue where the JLA goes into his mind and it's all hellish and twisted accept for a little cabin where he's sitting there all sweet and normal acting; or in the Demon Laughs when bats throws him into the Lazarus Pit and it makes him temporarily sane and he starts feeling bad for what the did (sociopaths don't have a conscience); or in Going Sane where has temporary clearity after thinking Bats is dead and has nightmares about who he was and the things he done (sociopaths don't have a conscience).

  13. #28
    Veteran Member Lancerman's Avatar
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    I like to think that he is a completely sane individual who was unhappy with his status quo, then saw the existence of the Batman and decided, if this guy can live outside social norms and convention so can I. He probably has a degree of psychopathy in that he lacks an empathy for his victims, but it's very calculated and he understands the lack, or maybe he just suppresses it, because he clearly has empathy for Batman.

  14. #29
    Senior Member penguintruth's Avatar
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    He's whatever keeps him in the stories instead of executed by the state or a random person who's family member has been murdered by him.
    The "Son of Batman" movie reminded me of the first reason I hated Grant Morrison's Batman run: Talia raped Batman and got away with it.

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  15. #30

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    No way in hell can a guy like the Joker who can challenge Batman like he does be truly insane.

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