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  1. #16
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    Let’s be clear.
    We’re talking the ‘90s here when Image was so-called ‘crap’, BEFORE their more recent efforts where they are credited for REVIVING the industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakal View Post
    Or they have Darkness? Witchblade? Spawn? Bedlam? What else they got? Prophet? Don't make me laugh.
    Yes, exactly. Darkness, Witchblade, Spawn. I long for high rendering! Where is it these days? Nothing today compares. These days it’s all deadlines, rushed, cartooney, simple Smurf pictures. In the ‘90s it was all drawings and no story. These days it’s all story and no drawings. There must be a balance between good pictures and good stories.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakal View Post
    Marvel did a lot of wrong too, they aren't saints, but Image put it to the ExTREEEEEME!
    No they didn’t. That was one guy. Please don’t label the whole of Image with Liefeld’s studio or personality. They kicked Extreme out.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakal View Post
    I can give them credit to turning the industry into a rotting corpse. Thanks image!
    Quote Originally Posted by chakal View Post
    The industry is dying. Thanks to them.
    I want you to explain exactly how Image turned the industry into a rotting corpse. I just don’t buy it. There was a financial bubble in comics. People thought their college would be paid off with an investment in a number 1 issue. When the bubble burst everybody got hurt. Image might have perpetuated that bubble, for sure, but they didn’t start it. It was bigger than them. It was NOT their fault. In fact, you should blame Wizard Magazine instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakal View Post
    you want to give credit for making indies better? Give it to Valiant, Fantagraphics, Avatar, Dark Horse, Boom, and yes, IDW.
    Oh come on, get real man. None of those companies had the traction Image had. They don’t get support or praise for a reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakal View Post
    And you know what? I wouldn't be so annoying if they just said that it was all business.
    Quote Originally Posted by chakal View Post
    If they said that they wanted more money from merchandise, this, I could understand.
    Again, watch the documentary. They did, in fact, say it was all business. Especially with McFarlane, the ‘businessman’ and his McFarlane toys.

    Quote Originally Posted by chakal View Post
    The whole reason I am a cunt is because they try to sell it as "revolution"
    Quote Originally Posted by chakal View Post
    And this is my main grip.
    That's not the reason you're a cunt. You're a cunt because you are socialist. Marvel was abusing their employees for decades. Every creator since the ‘50s complained about the same things the Image guys did. You must realise the ‘revolution’ wasn’t the new books Image made. It was the creator’s rights movement and the future work-for-hire contracts with Marvel that changed. Valiant was started by a former Marvel employee (Jim Shooter) but they never had the impact Image had. When Image was formed and they left Marvel en masse, it rocked the world.

    All I’m saying is you have a personal vendetta with Image. You should let it go.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by delira View Post
    You're a cunt because you are socialist.
    WTF? Really?

    Nothing in this thread shows that chakal is a socialist and being a socialist certainly doesn't make you a cunt.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    WTF? Really?

    Nothing in this thread shows that chakal is a socialist and being a socialist certainly doesn't make you a cunt.
    Yeah, you're right. That was tasteless. My apologies to chakal.

  4. #19
    Sentinels were right chakal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delira View Post
    Yeah, you're right. That was tasteless. My apologies to chakal.
    It's okay, no biggie. Frankly, I don't know why I'm here. I had this bugging feeling that I should check this. So I did. I see that nothing interesting happened. If you called me an asshole, I would be less offended. But calling me a socialist? That was really low. (I'm joking of course)

    Before it gets too serious, let me say few things.
    Enjoy what you want, support what you want, but at the same time, be careful, and let others criticize, especially that there really are certain things that deserve criticism.
    What you should ask yourself is:
    - Why never Byrne, Miller, Claremont (especially him, it's glorious to learn why he never did anything creator-owned at Image, it's an epitome of what I try to say), Bisette, Engleheart, Stern, or anyone who can write never did anything at Image. Ask yourself, WHY IMAGE IS PUBLISHING MOSTLY a no-names, when they have the means to publish the big names, especially that they were the second big publisher for a while (they did surpass DC)? What happened with all of these money and resources? Did they evolve, grew up? Or did they waste it?
    - Why Bendis hates Image and loves Marvel (this one I would like to know as well, because it's interesting)
    - If Image could publish only superheroes, do you think that they would waste their resources on indies?
    - If it's a revolution, why only a no-names participate in it? Why no legacy writers, artists are doing work for image? Even Moore started his own company instead of doing more work for Image. And later, Jim Lee betrayed him, by selling Wildstorm (that owned ABC comics) to DC. Can you get more low than this?
    The fact is that Image is a closet Marvel-wannabe. They always were. It's also the reason why anyone who started in Image, very quickly turned to Marvel. Think about it. Seriously.

    Of course, marvel ain't saints, but they don't call themselves the saviors of creator's rights, and frankly, they did much more for creator's rights than Image ever did. Just my 2 cents

    Also, a song to make your day better, because I'm a swell guy
    Last edited by chakal; 02-01-2014 at 07:51 PM.
    Say No to decompressed storytelling!

    Bellechere for the win!!!

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  5. #20
    Crusader of Justice dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chakal View Post
    - If it's a revolution, why only a no-names participate in it? Why no legacy writers, artists are doing work for image?
    That's a really strange thing to judge a publisher by - but it's also inaccurate.

    Robert Kirkman, Bryan K Vaughan, Matt Fraction, Erik Larsen, Ed Brubaker, Sean Phillips, Jon Hickman, Mark Millar, Frank Quitely, Charlie Adlard.

    These are not no-name creators.

  6. #21
    Sentinels were right chakal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    That's a really strange thing to judge a publisher by - but it's also inaccurate.

    Robert Kirkman, Bryan K Vaughan, Matt Fraction, Erik Larsen, Ed Brubaker, Sean Phillips, Jon Hickman, Mark Millar, Frank Quitely, Charlie Adlard.

    These are not no-name creators.
    You have to keep in mind that I try to balance things.
    I ask: "If Image is so good, then why the legacy writers aren't participating in it?
    Also, Claremont was treated very badly. He was the 8th Image founder, but later he was bushwhacked out.
    He was supposed to have Huntsman ongoing, but in the end he didn't, because he was only A WRITER. But he was good enough to write few issues of Cyberforce and Wildcats.
    I wonder if you even CARED about it. Probably not.

    The irony is that he is employed nowadays at marvel, and he gets money whether he writes anything or not. So yeah 1:0 for Marvel. And that alone should be depressing, because Image is supposed to be BETTER, right? Better than Mainstream. It's supposed to be a haven, right?
    Brubaker, Vaughan, Fraction, Hickman, Millar... They are good.
    But frankly, they will never achieve the greatness that Simonson, Starlin, Thomas, Engleheart, Adams did.
    Why? Because they don't love comic books. They love themselves.
    And they lack the dedication to produce a good comic book.
    It's subjective, but frankly, I don't give a... I feel good about telling the truth.
    Of course, you might disagree, but I ask you, what is in your opinion the greatest achievement of independent comics?

    Ask yourself: do you really want me to rant about it?
    I can, but it will be very harsh.
    Also, look at me. Replying to a few months old thread. Isn't it pathetic already.
    Of course, I care about the truth, which is why I will continue posting here, as long as the truth will prevail.
    But yeah it's embarassing.

    The whole point, the main point, is that Image's revolution was worthless.
    Why would I say such "blasphemy"?
    Easy. 20 years later, and mainstream comic books still rule and indies are barely breathing.
    If this is not enough, fine, another answer
    Politics, it's not about quality, it's about who knows who.
    Also, and that might be the hardest pill to swallow:
    People like Remender,
    They are happy doing both.
    The saddest thing is that their mainstream work is better than their indie work.
    And that should be a food for thought.
    Forget about me.
    Ask yourself, why indies are doing so bad?
    The comic book community is already limited and supposedly, they have "sophisticated" taste.
    One could say that is weird that they criticize the mainstream with such passion. If they have indies as alternative, why do they choose mainstream?
    Yet, they choose mainstream over indies. Why?

    SIDENOTE: The sole fact that some people consider art more important than writing is a LEGACY of Image comics, and it will be one of the reasons that comic books are obsolete. Keep in mind that I didn't use "will". Comic books are already obsolete. There is only downhill from here.

    P.S.2 damn, I am pathetic. I re-read it. I care about the truth too much. here is a song to make your days better. I promise that whenever I will post in this thread, I will try to put something positive!
    Last edited by chakal; 02-15-2014 at 12:39 PM.
    Say No to decompressed storytelling!

    Bellechere for the win!!!

    European Union: XXI Century New USSR
    I am anti-EU

  7. #22
    Crusader of Justice dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chakal View Post
    Brubaker, Vaughan, Fraction, Hickman, Millar... They are good.
    But frankly, they will never achieve the greatness that Simonson, Starlin, Thomas, Engleheart, Adams did.
    Honestly I think that with the exception of Fraction, they've surpassed Starlin and Engleheart. I haven't read enough Roy Thomas to comment on him - and I don't know which Adams you're talking about.

    Simonson is great though.

  8. #23
    Sentinels were right chakal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    Honestly I think that with the exception of Fraction, they've surpassed Starlin and Engleheart. I haven't read enough Roy Thomas to comment on him - and I don't know which Adams you're talking about.

    Simonson is great though.
    Ha, I like your style.
    Well, only time will tell. I want to believe that they are better.
    Maybe they are, maybe they are not.
    For me, the deicisive factor is the attitude.
    "By their fruit you will recognize them"

    Peace
    Say No to decompressed storytelling!

    Bellechere for the win!!!

    European Union: XXI Century New USSR
    I am anti-EU

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