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  1. #301
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babybro View Post
    That's not what you said, you mentioned marvel in a previous post yes but you also said this.



    And that's why I had to correct you, because you want a villain that they can't handle at all, I however do not, now what marvel does is their prerogative, but as I mentioned before, I don't want villains like that as a avengers team for me would be just as interesting if hulk "could" solo Thanos.
    And I think that sort of misses the point of a team book.

    If Thor doesn't need the Avengers to beat Thanos, then maybe that's a story that should be taking place in th Thor book rather than the Avengers book. To me at least it makes more sense that the threat scales in a team book to the team rather than a single member of the team.

    To me it's just common sense... which is essentially why it's done.
    Last edited by XPac; 12-01-2013 at 10:07 PM.

  2. #302
    Senior Member babybro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    I am sorry what is the point of having a team if Thor or the Hulk can do all the work?
    To help? Just because there's a chance that hulk might be able to solo Thanos doesn't mean it should be left to chance, that's the thing I'm not saying that Thanos should be weaker than hulk, but hulk imo should be able to go toe to toe with him, and the combine might of them all would make certain that they win because if hulk is taken out, you should have back up, it's like the darkseid vs superman example I described earlier, superman can go toe to toe with darkseid, but if superman loses, you have wonder woman and the gallery to help finish the job. There's a difference between making a villain formidable and making the villain uber.
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  3. #303
    Senior Member babybro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    And I think that sort of misses the point of a team book.

    If Thor doesn't need the Avengers to beat Thanos, then maybe that's a story that should be taking place in th Thor book rather than the Avengers book. To me at least it makes more sense then the treat scales in a team book to the team rather than a single member of the team.

    To me it's just common sense... which is essentially why it's done.
    Not really no, it just depends upon the writing and story, for example Gundam wing had the Gundam significantly more powerful than their adversaries and it still made one of the most popular anime series in America, what you are talking about fits more with Western writing yes, but that doesn't mean it's common sense, it's just the preferred route to take here but you can still have a fantastic fight scene with comic with villains who are formidable but not overpowering.
    Snowstorm Comics is the newest comic book publisher. Releasing their first print "Kindred" from their upcoming comic, "Evolved" you can find out more at snowstormcomics.com

  4. #304
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babybro View Post
    Not really no, it just depends upon the writing and story, for example Gundam wing had the Gundam significantly more powerful than their adversaries and it still made one of the most popular anime series in America, what you are talking about fits more with Western writing yes, but that doesn't mean it's common sense, it's just the preferred route to take here but you can still have a fantastic fight scene with comic with villains who are formidable but not overpowering.
    So you're saying it doesn't make sense to have an Avenger level threat in an Avengers book?

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaggedFel View Post
    I am sorry what is the point of having a team if Thor or the Hulk can do all the work?
    Well i was hoping Hulk could used his brain as banner maybe? Thor is needed because HES THOR... Thor wasnt written at his max potential anyhow.

  6. #306
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babybro View Post
    To help? Just because there's a chance that hulk might be able to solo Thanos doesn't mean it should be left to chance, that's the thing I'm not saying that Thanos should be weaker than hulk, but hulk imo should be able to go toe to toe with him, and the combine might of them all would make certain that they win because if hulk is taken out, you should have back up, it's like the darkseid vs superman example I described earlier, superman can go toe to toe with darkseid, but if superman loses, you have wonder woman and the gallery to help finish the job. There's a difference between making a villain formidable and making the villain uber.
    Given that this is an event, I think UBER was pretty much what they were going for. So mission accomplished on that front.

  7. #307
    Senior Member babybro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    So you're saying it doesn't make sense to have an Avenger level threat in an Avengers book?
    Wait what? Where are you getting this from? My point is quite clear, I personally don't like uber villains and a villain that can go to to toe with the hulk is a avenger level threat, a person doesn't have to be omg hyper powerful villain in order to be a threat for the avengers, hell the red skull is a avenger level threat and he's not even in Luke cages league
    Snowstorm Comics is the newest comic book publisher. Releasing their first print "Kindred" from their upcoming comic, "Evolved" you can find out more at snowstormcomics.com

  8. #308
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babybro View Post
    Wait what? Where are you getting this from? My point is quite clear, I personally don't like uber villains and a villain that can go to to toe with the hulk is a avenger level threat, a person doesn't have to be omg hyper powerful villain in order to be a threat for the avengers, hell the red skull is a avenger level threat and he's not even in Luke cages league
    How can a villain be Avenger level if he's on the same level as Hulk and Thor, who are part of the Avengers? That's where your reasoning falls apart.

    If you're on the level of a Hulk, then you're below the level of a team with Hulk AND Thor and Hyperion and Captain Marvel. Because collectively the Avengers WITH Hulk are far more powerful than JUST Hulk. Again, that's just common sense.

  9. #309
    Senior Member babybro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    How can a villain be Avenger level if he's on the same level as Hulk and Thor, who are part of the Avengers? That's where your reasoning falls apart.

    If you're on the level of a Hulk, then you're below the level of a team with Hulk AND Thor and Hyperion and Captain Marvel. Because collectively the Avengers WITH Hulk are far more powerful than JUST Hulk. Again, that's just common sense.

    It doesn't fall apart at all, you're just classifying what an avenger level threat is as different than myself.

    1) the avengers together does not make the team far more powerful than the hulk by himself, seeing as the hulk is the strongest on the team, now they can fill up certain niches, yes, but the hulk is considered the Big gun for a reason, so if you are as strong or a little stronger than the hulk than you are still greater than everyone on the team, hence avenger level threat

    2) avenger level threat is not associated by mere power level alone, as there have been plenty of villains who face the avengers and are not even as strong as wonder man, let alone Thor, yet they still are avengers level.

    3) having four of your power houses on the team doesn't mean squat if he planned correctly, as others stated, if the fight happen using intelligence and not a straight up brawl of generals vs avengers, it would have been better, but making a villain vastly more powerful than your strongest power house does not make them a avengers threat, it just means they are more powerful, that's all.

    So stop trying to claim it as common sense when its really nothing more than your personal preference and that's it.
    Snowstorm Comics is the newest comic book publisher. Releasing their first print "Kindred" from their upcoming comic, "Evolved" you can find out more at snowstormcomics.com

  10. #310
    Elder Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    How can a villain be Avenger level if he's on the same level as Hulk and Thor, who are part of the Avengers? That's where your reasoning falls apart.

    If you're on the level of a Hulk, then you're below the level of a team with Hulk AND Thor and Hyperion and Captain Marvel. Because collectively the Avengers WITH Hulk are far more powerful than JUST Hulk. Again, that's just common sense.
    By that logic, they should never have used Loki as an Avengers villain against the whole team, since Thor had defeated him single handedly multiple times.

  11. #311
    Old and broken Pat Thomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
    By that logic, they should never have used Loki as an Avengers villain against the whole team, since Thor had defeated him single handedly multiple times.
    In the comics, they really haven't used him other than issue 1, unless I'm just forgetting something. After he accidentally brought them together, they decided to form a group
    together, to fight the fights no single hero could withstand.
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  12. #312
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babybro View Post
    It doesn't fall apart at all, you're just classifying what an avenger level threat is as different than myself.

    1) the avengers together does not make the team far more powerful than the hulk by himself, seeing as the hulk is the strongest on the team, now they can fill up certain niches, yes, but the hulk is considered the Big gun for a reason, so if you are as strong or a little stronger than the hulk than you are still greater than everyone on the team, hence avenger level threat

    2) avenger level threat is not associated by mere power level alone, as there have been plenty of villains who face the avengers and are not even as strong as wonder man, let alone Thor, yet they still are avengers level.

    3) having four of your power houses on the team doesn't mean squat if he planned correctly, as others stated, if the fight happen using intelligence and not a straight up brawl of generals vs avengers, it would have been better, but making a villain vastly more powerful than your strongest power house does not make them a avengers threat, it just means they are more powerful, that's all.

    So stop trying to claim it as common sense when its really nothing more than your personal preference and that's it.
    Thor and Hyperion are as comparatively powerful as the Hulk (while Star Brand and Captain Universe being VASTLY more powerful). That alone makes the Avengers easily more than 4 times more powerful, and that's not even counting the other 18 or so members.

    And YES it is common sense to argue that Hulk with the other Avengers is on a level above JUST Hulk.

  13. #313
    Elder Member Vic Vega's Avatar
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    There are physical threts and then there are the social political ones.
    And there are guys who count as both.

    Guys like Red Skull or Osborne capable of insinuating himself in America's political system and making themselves a clandestine threat to the Avengers.
    However once they exposed and cornered, there isn't jack that guys like them can do about being exposed and cornered but cut and run.

    Cap can and has soloed the Classic Skull repeatedly so, he wouldn't have a chance in hell against any Avengers team even the Kooky Quartet.
    I'm not sure what powers Oborne has now but even with his armor, by himself he's not that dangerous to an Avengers team.

    Guys like Thanos, Korvac, Kang, Utron are literally too tough for any one Avenger (even Thor or Hulk) to handle solo.
    Even if they are cornered, the Avengers are in for a fight (and if its Korvac, they are probably going to get utterly stomped even if they bring every man they have).

    You don't need an Avengers team in universe to deal with friggin Norman Osborne. Captain America's buddy brigade (Cap, 'Tasha, Falcon and Winter Soldier) could have done it.

    It would have been harder for them (and would have involved more infiltration and less fisticuffs) , but they could have done it.

    The whole POINT of the Avengers is that they are the ONLY guys who as a group can even begin to do anything about the Thanos', Ultrons, Korvacs and Kangs.
    Last edited by Vic Vega; 12-02-2013 at 08:11 AM.

  14. #314
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
    By that logic, they should never have used Loki as an Avengers villain against the whole team, since Thor had defeated him single handedly multiple times.
    Realistically when Thor is on the Avengers roster, he really DOES need to bring more to the table because readers already know that Thor single handedly can take him.

    Of course the notion of Avengers level probably is dependent on the actual Avengers roster. Loki would be a MASSIVE threat to Kooky Quartet for example. But quite honestly I'm not sure he'd last 5 seconds against the current Avengers roster.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenScar1990 View Post
    First things first.

    Thanos surprise attacked a weakened Galactus who didn't even feed yet. He certainly did not harm to Galan, who immediately dealt with the Mad Titan with about as much effort as he would do to either Hulk or Thor. And unlike Thanos, neither Thor or Hulk needed shields to protect them from a blast from Galactus. And it was Thanos' shields that he had a problem with at first, but nothing that a second blast couldn't deal with.



    And I know for a fact that Thnaos isn't on par with the Sky-Fathers like Odin or Zeus.
    However, Thanos Galactus threw away in one hit. The Hulk did it?

    And where it says that Galactus was hungry? He even tried to feed the story.

    Ah, Thanos was equal terms against Odin so. And Thor only managed to defeat a clone of Thanos using Asgardians artifacts (three if I'm not mistaken).

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