View Poll Results: How evil is Cyclops?

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  • Too evil

    11 6.75%
  • Not evil enough

    27 16.56%
  • Just the right amount of evil

    36 22.09%
  • Not evil at all (for the boring people)

    89 54.60%
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  1. #91
    Senior Member maxi_miceli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    I dunno about that, he does seem to be able to show up on the JGS front lawn, repeatedly bring over a growing number of their staff and students to his side and they literally do nothing about it. They keep talking about bringing him in, yet just keep letting him come and go as he pleases. Heck they haven't even made the effort to try to find his location.
    They are not going to attack him, it would be really dumb, besides he has the magikbus and he can get away when he wants, and what would they do if they knew where they are? I don't think that attacking a school is their style, they could send the Avengers, but they would have their asses kicked like the last time
    He is right though Cyclops can't enter the school, he just was in the front lawn, and Wolverine almost went feral when the Cuckoos stopped Jean's mind control over Angel, just to got kicked by Magneto (he should have learned by now that it is not smart to face the master of magnetism if you have your skeleton covered in metal) and when the O5 came into the present he jumped to try to kill Cyclops when he smelled him, just to get kicked by Jean

  2. #92
    Senior Member anthony_lynch15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jollygoldfish View Post
    Lol perfect Cycho sentiment. Rebel to the establishment. Rolling stone cover bad boy to the masses. And then they want Emma or his next blow up sex doll to spank him and tell him how naughty he's been. And then fall to their knees and ask what else they can do for him. Vicarious living and all that.
    That seems like a slight overreaction to a Monty Python quote.
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  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madame_Scarlet View Post
    He just doesn't give a shit what anyone thinks anymore. He's all about stopping ignorance and if he pisses some Avengers off along the way then the more the merrier.
    That's why the Avengers hate him. Wanda committed genocide and tries to rationalize it but it's okay because she was contrite before her old teammates who keep her from being tried for crimes against humanity.

    Cyclops doesn't feel the need to beg forgiveness from the Avengers, which is why his killing some telepath who was trying to shut down his brain is worse than Wanda trying to erase mutant kind.

  4. #94

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    I think every person has a little "evil" inside himself... and comibook characters should be no exception. especially under phoenix influence. as for now, cyke remains a leader, some decisions are hard to take but must be taken, so cyke may have 10 or 20% of evil in his acts but it is a necessary part. I think the good reign over evil in cyclop's case.


    and as always............... forgive my english and grammar mistakes.
    Last edited by noah_morningstar; 11-11-2013 at 01:19 AM. Reason: errors

  5. #95
    Doesn't give a frak. Father_Jerusalem's Avatar
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    Cyclops is pragmatic, not evil.

    Wolverine, Storm, Beast, Captain Fascism... they're all the ones wasting their time hating Cyclops and screaming that he's evil and shit. Cyclops is just like "Whatevs, brah. While you're wasting time whining, I'm going to go out and save mutants from being killed."

    Clearly he's not evil enough. I hope that UXM #25 is just double splash pages of him running around kicking puppies and stealing lollipops from little kids. At least then maybe the butthurt about him will be justified.
    "You disgust me, Hank McCoy."
    - Uatu, The Watcher

  6. #96
    Where the sun don't shine Pro's Avatar
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    I think every person has a little "evil" inside himself...
    Most people don't end up killing their mentor and father figure.

    and comibook characters should be no exception. especially under phoenix influence.
    There is no such thing as the Phoenix turning people evil. It's bullshit without any canon to back up the argument. Cyclops is a loser with a history of mental and emotional issues, the rest of his team has had its dark side cherry popped long before AvX. They fell because they couldn't control their own urges, because they couldn't deal with having nothing to stop them from acting on their urges. Cyclops' urge revolved around feeling betrayed by Charles and wanting him out of his life, so when the old man tried to prevent him from turning dark Phoenix he murdered him. THEN and only then did he turn dark side, because like the others he gave in to his dark urges. That's how the Phoenix works. It does not corrupt, it enhances passions already there.
    However you twist and turn it Cyclops wanted Charles dead and he acted on it.
    And I wouldn't even half care about that if he'd turn bad guy after that, but no he nearly destroyed the world, he killed his mentor, he hunted down a young girl to force her to take on a task he'd had his son groom her for, but he's a hero because .. pantsdwarfs? I dunno.
    Cyclops is not evil. He is a selfabsorbed whiney fuckup with severe emotional issues.
    God, i wish they did make him evil, it'd be an improvement over the sad sack of shit he's been made into.

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro View Post
    butt: im hurt
    I know everyone is entitled to their own opinions but man, cant you twist facts any less?

    No one got turned evil by phoenix? Lol

  8. #98
    Junior Member DakenGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAMCRO34 View Post
    Y'all can look at my signature to see where I fall on the Schism. That said, I would not mind if Cyclops was a true villain at this point. I think that would make for some great storytelling. But, alas, he is not evil at all. The act of killing Xavier would certainly be enough to seal his fate, if not for the fact that he did so while being possessed by a cosmic entity. And it's incredibly stupid that the corporate mandate is to treat this act as being SO MUCH WORSE, SO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from all the other character-gets-possessed-and-does-terrible-things scenarios they've provided us over the decades.

    It all comes down to shitty execution. AvX vilified Cyclops, glorified the Avengers (who did nothing but make things worse for everybody throughout the entire event), and turned Wolverine into the biggest hypocrite since Al Gore. Wouldn't it have been better, more dramatic, to have the climax of AvX play out like this: the Phoenix Force finally repairs itself and possesses Hope. Xavier, fearing another Dark Phoenix situation, decides to kill Hope before she can acclimate to her new powers. And Cyclops, realizing what Xavier is going to do, kills him in order to save Hope (and the entire mutant race)? If AvX had gone like this, then one could argue that Cyclops has taken his first big leap to the dark side. I would enjoy the shit out of that. Instead, what we are left with is "Cyclops is hated because he did bad things all because the Avengers are fucking morons, and Wolverine is a whiny faux-pacifistic bitch now but MARVEL says he's in the right because he is more popular than Cyclops and makes MARVEL money."
    Your whole post is a thing of beauty but the part I bolded is what drives me the most nuts about AvX. The Avengers got turned into irredeemable douchebags and Wolvie is now the most hypocritical jerk in the x-verse (where there is no shortage of hypocritical jerks) and all for...what? To make Cyke a traumatized guy all his former friends pick on a lot because they're apparently just assholes?

    Cyke already started up X-Force after M-Day. All they had to do if they wanted Wolverine to be all peace and love now and Cyke to be Must.Protect.Mutants.At.All.Costs guy was have Wolverine pull the plug on X-Force and have Cyke secretly start it up again, then Wolverine could go off and start his school and Cyke keep giving the order to bump off bad guys and hey presto schism that puts Cyke in the extremist zone and would actually have some basis that wasn't 99% asspull. But Marvel doesn't want Wolvie to stop being a metal-clawed killing machine because that's his big selling point, so instead, they have Cyclops too traumatized by Kurt's death to go on with X-Force, even though bad guys are still out there, and have Wolverine keep it going, secretly, being part of a group that killed a kid and then got Warren killed. Then they have Wolvie bitch out Cyke all the time for being a crazy fringe-dwelling extremist while still getting to hang out smugly with Beast and the other Avengers in the lap of luxury, free and clear, while tut-tutting over Cyke's meager little displays of civil disobedience like the guy's using nail bombs when he's mostly just waving his finger in the face of people who try to beat up and kill mutants and rescuing the mutants from them. Something any other version of Wolverine, consistent with the guy he used to be, would have been doing himself, but bloodier.

    Was there really any point in that arc where they didn't think it was going to make Wolverine stink like week old fish? Not to mention making anyone who's been following the character for years head-scratch over his behavior because it makes no fricking sense. When ever was 'rank hypocrisy' the central tenet of Wolvie's character before AvX? It wasn't. Ever. The guy had a boatload of faults and he owned up to all of them, he didn't pretend he hadn't committed crimes he had and then criticize someone else for doing the same thing he did (killing an innocent while possessed), while thinking he shouldn't be punished for it but that other guy should, and how, and he'd throw the switch. I mean who is that guy? Because he's no version of Wolverine I recognize.

    Has he even owned up to Cyke about getting one of his oldest friends killed yet? (Beast apparently got told and was fine about it because, hey, it was only Warren, who he's known since they were both teenagers, and Beast's characterization stopped making sense after Utopia anyhow so why not just throw a few more inconsistencies onto him?)

    IMO AvX continues to be the dead rat under the floorboards that keeps stinking up the whole house.

  9. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixth_Winged View Post
    butthurtness
    I hear Church gives free Phoenix Studies on Sundays.
    You should take it, since you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
    What? do you need blood spattered on your faces to even feel alive anymore???
    ohsnapulon5000

  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Filip View Post
    I hear Church gives free Phoenix Studies on Sundays.
    You should take it, since you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
    A post that contained no mention whatever of any relevant points of conversation of this topic deserves nothing but irrelevance.

    So here's my retort to your non-contribution.













    ...











    ...







    ...

  11. #101
    BAMF Brigade Sundowhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DakenGirl View Post
    But Marvel doesn't want Wolvie to stop being a metal-clawed killing machine because that's his big selling point, so instead, they have Cyclops too traumatized by Kurt's death to go on with X-Force, even though bad guys are still out there, and have Wolverine keep it going, secretly, being part of a group that killed a kid and then got Warren killed.
    [...]
    Was there really any point in that arc where they didn't think it was going to make Wolverine stink like week old fish? Not to mention making anyone who's been following the character for years head-scratch over his behavior because it makes no fricking sense. When ever was 'rank hypocrisy' the central tenet of Wolvie's character before AvX? It wasn't. Ever. The guy had a boatload of faults and he owned up to all of them, he didn't pretend he hadn't committed crimes he had and then criticize someone else for doing the same thing he did (killing an innocent while possessed), while thinking he shouldn't be punished for it but that other guy should, and how, and he'd throw the switch. I mean who is that guy? Because he's no version of Wolverine I recognize.



    IMO AvX continues to be the dead rat under the floorboards that keeps stinking up the whole house.
    Interesting theory on why Scott pulled the plug on X-Force. I know what they did on panel with Wolverine, as far as his justification for continuing it, was having him say if he'd killed more of those kinds of people, maybe Kurt would still be alive.

    Alonso has said that Kurt's death was one of the big reasons for Schism. He said that in an AiC about a week ago. Part of Wolverine's characterization problem may just be that it's happened in too many books. In the X-Men proper, we had him initially reacting to Kurt's death, falling out with Cyclops almost immediately afterwards and going on to open a school on the pretense of keeping the kids out of fighting, basically reflective of a conversation shown between he and Nightcrawler in Nation X, right after Utopia was formed. At the same time, he maintained X-Force for the aforementioned reason boiling down to what else could he have done to save his friend? Remender put him through the ringer in UXF and used not only Evan and Daken, but a very dark version of his best friend to show him what happened when he let himself be driven by revenge and murder. He disbanded the group and not only sided with the "law abiding" Avengers in AvX, he also helped form a response team blending Avenger and X-Men. His solo had him talking to Kurt's grave about what's going on now and that he needs help.

    What Logan's characterization over the past three years boils down to is this: he took Kurt's death harder than anyone else did. The complete change in direction of the character that people complain so much about is actually explained by Kurt's death. Logan hasn't been doing things like he used to, he's been making decisions that he thought Kurt would make or approve of and that often includes trying and failing because he keeps falling back into old patterns. He's an old dude, after all, and was set in his ways before this. He got the kids away from Utopia and the militant style so they can be kids, he sided with the Avengers because they're 'law-abiding', he's trying to make sure Xavier's dream lives on. When has Logan ever been one to do stuff like that? Never before. What was the catalyst? The death of his best friend. Why is he completely unreasonable regarding Scott? Because, in part, he probably blames him for getting Kurt killed or at least Scott's obsession with Hope at the time. The final portion of Logan's development from this will likely happen once Kurt is back and reacts to all that's happened.

    Logan isn't being shown within the context of the story as always being right. He's shown repeatedly as trying and failing and just doing the best he can. Cyclops, however, IS shown as always being right, but the Che Guevara persona really doesn't take into account some underlying things. Scott, by killing the mentor of the X-Men, has symbolically said that the old way of doing things is dead. He's sided with Magneto, again, symbolically representing that Magneto's notion of the inevitability of a war is something he agrees with. Scott is still in reactionary mode and is not looking at the long term consequences of his revolutionary stance on mutantkind.

    Neither of these guys are right and neither of them are wrong. They are just following two different ideologies.

    I agree that AvX stunk to high heaven.
    Last edited by Sundowhn; 11-11-2013 at 04:01 AM.

  12. #102
    Senior Member MichaelChen's Avatar
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    The reason for Wolverine's hypocrisy is simple: Marvel loves him and won't let him be the bad guy. Sure, they'll let him have a dark past where he hurt nameless extras no one cares about, but they aren't going to have him be the bad guy in the here and now in a story where that means him hurting characters people care about. Wolverine is basically a Byronic Hero. A big part of a Byronic Hero's appeal is about him angsting about the terrible things he has done to people who aren't fleshed out in the story. They aren't fleshed out because the story isn't about their death, it's about the Byronic Hero's guilt and angst about killing them. If the victims are fleshed out, then he's not the Byronic Hero, he's just a villian.

    So you get this "hypocrisy" where Wolverine reacts one way to people no one cares about, but suddenly acts a completely different way the moment a story involving lots of name characters comes along.

  13. #103
    F&*k BOTA!!! Hariel0079's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Egg View Post
    They couldn't even be bothered to give her motivation for switching sides.
    They did. It's called the O5 and the JGS wanting to send them home and her fellow staff she can't trust anymore.

  14. #104
    F&*k BOTA!!! Hariel0079's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    Interesting theory on why Scott pulled the plug on X-Force. I know what they did on panel with Wolverine, as far as his justification for continuing it, was having him say if he'd killed more of those kinds of people, maybe Kurt would still be alive.

    Alonso has said that Kurt's death was one of the big reasons for Schism. He said that in an AiC about a week ago. Part of Wolverine's characterization problem may just be that it's happened in too many books. In the X-Men proper, we had him initially reacting to Kurt's death, falling out with Cyclops almost immediately afterwards and going on to open a school on the pretense of keeping the kids out of fighting, basically reflective of a conversation shown between he and Nightcrawler in Nation X, right after Utopia was formed. At the same time, he maintained X-Force for the aforementioned reason boiling down to what else could he have done to save his friend? Remender put him through the ringer in UXF and used not only Evan and Daken, but a very dark version of his best friend to show him what happened when he let himself be driven by revenge and murder. He disbanded the group and not only sided with the "law abiding" Avengers in AvX, he also helped form a response team blending Avenger and X-Men. His solo had him talking to Kurt's grave about what's going on now and that he needs help.

    What Logan's characterization over the past three years boils down to is this: he took Kurt's death harder than anyone else did. The complete change in direction of the character that people complain so much about is actually explained by Kurt's death. Logan hasn't been doing things like he used to, he's been making decisions that he thought Kurt would make or approve of and that often includes trying and failing because he keeps falling back into old patterns. He's an old dude, after all, and was set in his ways before this. He got the kids away from Utopia and the militant style so they can be kids, he sided with the Avengers because they're 'law-abiding', he's trying to make sure Xavier's dream lives on. When has Logan ever been one to do stuff like that? Never before. What was the catalyst? The death of his best friend. Why is he completely unreasonable regarding Scott? Because, in part, he probably blames him for getting Kurt killed or at least Scott's obsession with Hope at the time. The final portion of Logan's development from this will likely happen once Kurt is back and reacts to all that's happened.

    Logan isn't being shown within the context of the story as always being right. He's shown repeatedly as trying and failing and just doing the best he can. Cyclops, however, IS shown as always being right, but the Che Guevara persona really doesn't take into account some underlying things. Scott, by killing the mentor of the X-Men, has symbolically said that the old way of doing things is dead. He's sided with Magneto, again, symbolically representing that Magneto's notion of the inevitability of a war is something he agrees with. Scott is still in reactionary mode and is not looking at the long term consequences of his revolutionary stance on mutantkind.

    Neither of these guys are right and neither of them are wrong. They are just following two different ideologies.

    I agree that AvX stunk to high heaven.

    WOW!!!! This probably the best analysis I've read in a while and completely agree with.

    Very well said. Best summarization I've read to date.

  15. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hariel0079 View Post
    They did. It's called the O5 and the JGS wanting to send them home and her fellow staff she can't trust anymore.
    ^This. She's bonded with the O5 and she doesn't want to put up with all the false promises the JGS advertises.

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