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  1. #256
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Cook View Post
    Not sure what, exactly, you're referring to, but OSC wrote much of his viewpoint down in professional articles ... he wasn't just "spouting off" to friends or something. I posted a link to one, I think, earlier in this thread. If not, you can find it easily enough.
    I should have clarified. I don't see 'spouting off' and a professional format as mutually exclusive. When you compare the quality of thought that typically goes into his novels to the articles in question, I have no problem saying they are emotional, fear-driven works not worthy of his genius.

    I don't mean to miminize the potential dangers of incendiary remarks, because whether OSC meant them or not, someone very well might. But while I can't know his heart, I don't take his commitment to revolution very seriously.

    The articles give off less of a revolutionary air and more of a 'you crazy kids get off my lawn!' vibe.
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    I should have clarified. I don't see 'spouting off' and a professional format as mutually exclusive. When you compare the quality of thought that typically goes into his novels to the articles in question, I have no problem saying they are emotional, fear-driven works not worthy of his genius.

    I don't mean to miminize the potential dangers of incendiary remarks, because whether OSC meant them or not, someone very well might. But while I can't know his heart, I don't take his commitment to revolution very seriously.

    The articles give off less of a revolutionary air and more of a 'you crazy kids get off my lawn!' vibe.
    I strongly disagree ... his serving on the board of that organization and putting money towards the cause would speak to his seriousness. And, besides that, the articles are just the kind of thing the anti-gay-rights bigots need to provide a veneer of legitimacy to their crusade.

  3. #258

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    I'm not saying he's going to redeem the culture from harmful language by using it, but there's always been an ongoing debate about whether art should reflect the world as we know it or as we know it can be. Am I actively supporting domestic abuse if I buy Eminem and Rhianna's "Love the Way You Lie," a song which romanticizes a doomed couple's destructive tendencies? I don't know, but it's a beautiful, haunting song.

    As a closing thought, this conversation reminds of Dostoevsky's cautionary tale of the doctor who said the more he loved humanity as a whole the more he despised individuals. And there is another thought that comes to mind from G K Chesterton: We ought to consider every man damnable, but no man damned.
    Nothing you've said here relates to what we were discussing... You made a point, I responded with contradicting evidence, and you've meandered into vague rhetoric/logical fallacy that only has passing association to the subject, without actually having responded to anything. So, can't really see the point of continuing... Have a good one though/enjoy your reading, etc, whatever it may be :)

  4. #259
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Cook View Post
    I strongly disagree ... his serving on the board of that organization and putting money towards the cause would speak to his seriousness. And, besides that, the articles are just the kind of thing the anti-gay-rights bigots need to provide a veneer of legitimacy to their crusade.
    I should clarify again: I think he was serious about fighting gay marriage, just not as extreme as one would believe if you took his 'mortal enemy' remarks at face value. That had the air of a child throwing a temper tantrum because they know they've already lost. Taken in context, it seems clear--at least in hindsight--that he's not the kind of man who's going to hole up in a compound and fight to the bitter end. He want's his Starbucks, you know? I think he's prejudiced, but not as unreasonable as his hyperbole suggests.

    And again, I don't want to minimize the very real impact his words and money have. If I were on a thread where people were saying OSC could do no wrong and supporting his political views, I'd respectfully disagree. But here things tend to swing closer to the opposite extreme, where people are willing to boycott a book and a movie that has something important to say about the world we live in.

    But I'll probably back off this argument for the time being, primarily because I don't have to live with that kind of prejudice on a daily basis and don't want to come across as insensitive to those who do. I don't want to dwell on an argument too long that doesn't have a significant impact on my daily reality. I understand why one would boycott OSC, even if I respectfully disagree. I can only recommend Ender's Game and suggest that one who doesn't read it is missing out on a brilliant book (and probably film, though I haven't seen it yet).

    Quote Originally Posted by TheEchoInside View Post
    Nothing you've said here relates to what we were discussing... You made a point, I responded with contradicting evidence, and you've meandered into vague rhetoric/logical fallacy that only has passing association to the subject, without actually having responded to anything. So, can't really see the point of continuing... Have a good one though/enjoy your reading, etc, whatever it may be :)
    Fair enough.

    I appreciate the thought both of you have put into your posts and I hope you all have a blessed day. Thanks for the conversation and hopefully I'll see you around.

    Best!

    David
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

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