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  1. #136
    Senior Member SNascimento's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane38 View Post
    Heroes solving problems by being smart or by saving people is boring? To define interesting as something linked to destruction is kind of disturbing to me. A story can be interesting without excessive violent spectacle.
    That's not what I said, but no matter. Just keep in mind that you be both brutal and smart at the same time.
    "Perfection... sometimes it's our worst enemy. I tried to be perfect once... decided to just try to be better. Found a good way to start that... is by accepting who you are."

  2. #137
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    Kinda shocked you liked it, klinton. I didn't think a book with Superman in it would be your kinda thing (but I think Diana is the main draw for you).

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane38 View Post
    I'm not questioning Diana's right to be angry. Her reaction is understandable and human. It's what makes her so easy to empathize with in this scenario, but that doesn't mean I can't see how she could have handled things a little bit better.
    Sure. I enjoy seeing her handle situtations non-violently, like when Sirracca aimed barrages of blades at her and Diana responded by not fighting but embracing her. But I don't know that I want her to do the saintly thing every time--especially when the human, angry thing only involves destruction of property (and particularly destruction of the property that had just been used against her).

    I don't think that witnessing Wonder Woman choosing not to injure or kill indiscriminately would have served as proof of her benign intentions. Perhaps she had one particular nefarious goal in mind that maiming or slaughtering many wasn't a necessary part of the plan.
    It's not just that killing and injuring weren't part of the plan; it's that she doesn't kill and injure even when they have just tried to kill her. I think that an enemy who refrains from returning fire on people who have tried to kill her, choosing only to destroy weapons, would be a great surprise to military personnel. It doesn't absolutely prove her benign intentions, but neither would soft words and refraining from damaging the gun. That could have been part of her nefarious plan, too.

    The military will not be able to see their comrades have been saved because they are bloody bodies littering their ship.
    Now that Doomsday has attacked, yes. But Wonder Woman, perhaps with help from Superman, may well save them from Doomsday. And afterwards, they'll find out that their comrades were saved, so I don't think their report to their superiors will necessarily make further violence likely.

  4. #139
    Senior Member Blacksun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher284 View Post
    Sorry, but I'm really not seeing what she did wrong, especially under those circumstances. Would it be nice to solve things peacefully, yes it would. But when you're in an extreme situation and time is of the essence, sometimes that's simply not an option. She didn't kill anyone, she didn't hurt anyone, she eliminated a threat quickly and efficiently, it was the right call.
    It's not wrong, but not the most noble atitude or smart thing to do. I'm sure WW could think in better ways to show that she by their side.



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    this is from Mara #4. there sone airplanes trying to attack her ahd she destroy them. She is not a hero and doesn't has experience, her powers are new to her.Before it she was in a extremely stressful situation (she was prisoner, can't talk with her brother). So I can understand why she did that.

  5. #140
    Veteran Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Those aren't comparable scenarios. Wonder Woman didn't destroy the ship, she just destroyed the gun turret. The ship itself is fine. Unless you mean something else; I was assuming you meant that Wonder Woman showed the same sort of recklessness of a noob.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 10-10-2013 at 08:12 PM.

  6. #141
    Senior Member Blacksun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Those aren't comparable scenarios. Wonder Woman didn't destroy the ship, she just destroyed the gun turret. The ship itself is fine. Unless you mean something else; I was assuming you meant that Wonder Woman showed the same sort of recklessness of a noob.
    yep. she acted more like a rookie.

    It's not just that killing and injuring weren't part of the plan; it's that she doesn't kill and injure even when they have just tried to kill her. I think that an enemy who refrains from returning fire on people who have tried to kill her, choosing only to destroy weapons, would be a great surprise to military personnel. It doesn't absolutely prove her benign intentions, but neither would soft words and refraining from damaging the gun. That could have been part of her nefarious plan, too.
    it's what I expect from WW, don't kill in situations she can handle well. they would never kill her with that guns. But she could do better than this.

  7. #142
    French-Canadian Frank Fournier's Avatar
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    Destroying a gun turret is nothing new for her, even before the New 52.

    http://www.amazonarchives.com/ww258.htm

    http://sleepycomics.com/1117_v?img=0

    I don't see what's the big deal here. I'm going to have a look at the comic book itself to understand then.
    Last edited by Frank Fournier; 10-10-2013 at 08:36 PM.
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  8. #143
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman Priime View Post
    Kinda shocked you liked it, klinton. I didn't think a book with Superman in it would be your kinda thing (but I think Diana is the main draw for you).
    Are you confusing me with someone else? I've never spoken ill of Superman. I think I've disliked two issues of the main Superman book since the relaunch, but other than that I've been fully pleased with him.

    I do hate me some Batman though, and I've made no secret of that. Perhaps you're confusing some of my comments? :/
    Freedom is merely the ability to live without fear of persecution.

  9. #144
    Senior Member misslane38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Is she going to get all of the available ammunition around there? Her taking the time to gingerly pick up and toss ammunition into the water (even at super speed) would take longer and be less effective than taking the bull by the horns and stopping the gun all together. She made the right call.
    If she would dispose of the ammunition on hand, then she would have the chance in the interim time to prove herself not a threat. They wouldn't fire on her any more because she would have proven herself as non-violent.

    In my example I clearly stated that it was the best chance to live. But regardless, FAST CPR is more often than not the best action in such a situation for someone trying to keep a person alive while more qualified help come to the situation. Your job as first aid is to act fast and keep the person alive long enough.
    Choosing the least destructive option that is still effective is always the best course of action.

    Quote Originally Posted by SNascimento View Post
    That's not what I said, but no matter. Just keep in mind that you be both brutal and smart at the same time.
    You can be, but you don't have to be. I proposed a smart solution that you deemed unworthy of seeing the printed page because it would too boring. It was the lack of destructive spectacle that was a turn off.

    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    Sure. I enjoy seeing her handle situtations non-violently, like when Sirracca aimed barrages of blades at her and Diana responded by not fighting but embracing her. But I don't know that I want her to do the saintly thing every time--especially when the human, angry thing only involves destruction of property (and particularly destruction of the property that had just been used against her).
    I'm not asking Diana to be a saint. I'm asking for her to be smart. If you don't have to be destructive, then don't be destructive.

    It's not just that killing and injuring weren't part of the plan; it's that she doesn't kill and injure even when they have just tried to kill her. I think that an enemy who refrains from returning fire on people who have tried to kill her, choosing only to destroy weapons, would be a great surprise to military personnel. It doesn't absolutely prove her benign intentions, but neither would soft words and refraining from damaging the gun. That could have been part of her nefarious plan, too.
    Diana can just as easily make her point by disarming rather than destroying the gun. That would also be surprising.

    Now that Doomsday has attacked, yes. But Wonder Woman, perhaps with help from Superman, may well save them from Doomsday. And afterwards, they'll find out that their comrades were saved, so I don't think their report to their superiors will necessarily make further violence likely.
    The pilots were not saved. They are bloody stumps on the ship. Of course, further violence is unlikely now that Superman and Wonder Woman have a chance to prove themselves. But my point is that they could have gotten to the same place by having Wonder Woman disarm the gun or make a more obvious save to prove herself worthy of trust.

    Honestly, it seems clear to me Soule is trying to set up a conflict to propel his future plots forward in the form of SM/WW versus government/public. At least I hope so because it's the only justification I can conceive of for Soule to write humans so abhorrently and to present someone like Wonder Woman as performing a heroic feat in a way that may ultimately come back to haunt her. Rather than write Diana as proving the military wrong, Soule wrote her as someone whose actions still may be misconstrued.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    Destroying a gun turret is nothing new for her, even before the New 52.

    http://www.amazonarchives.com/ww258.htm

    http://sleepycomics.com/1117_v?img=0

    I don't see what's the big deal here. I'm going to have a look at the comic book itself to understand then.
    I can't figure out the full context for those images, but my assumption is that those guns shooting at Wonder Woman are doing so because evil is at work. What happened in this issue was a misunderstanding. Wonder Woman is not dealing with an enemy; she's dealing with generally good guys who are confused. If she acts smartly and strategically, she can prevent further misunderstanding and escalation.

    To be clear, though, this isn't a "big deal" for me. It's just a pet peeve I have about superhero comics. I dislike when heroes use more force than necessary, especially when they want to build trust with the public, the military, and the government. It's not the end of the world.
    Last edited by misslane38; 10-10-2013 at 08:57 PM.
    "I love that she’s human. You need that juxtaposed to the perfection of Superman. [Lois] has this absolute loyalty for what is good and just, and it parallels what Superman is." – Erica Durance

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    Are you confusing me with someone else? I've never spoken ill of Superman. I think I've disliked two issues of the main Superman book since the relaunch, but other than that I've been fully pleased with him.

    I do hate me some Batman though, and I've made no secret of that. Perhaps you're confusing some of my comments? :/

    Nah, just never figured you'd like Supes. My bad for ASSuming.

  11. #146
    Veteran Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    yep. she acted more like a rookie.
    You have ridiculous expectations if disabling a weapon quickly and without harming anyone else equals acting like a rookie.

    What she did was disable a bunch of trigger happy soldiers quickly and efficiently so she and Superman could then protect those very same people from a real threat. That's smart, that's heroic, that's overall sensible. That she showed a little emotion while doing it is completely irrelevant.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 10-10-2013 at 08:58 PM.

  12. #147
    Senior Member Blacksun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    You have ridiculous expectations if disabling a weapon quickly and without harming anyone else equals acting like a rookie.

    What she did was disable a bunch of trigger happy soldiers quickly and efficiently so she and Superman could then protect those very same people from a real threat. That's smart, that's heroic, that's overall sensible. That she showed a little emotion while doing it is completely irrelevant.
    she couldn't just bent the tubes?

  13. #148
    Senior Member Vanguard01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    she couldn't just bent the tubes?
    "Bent the tubes?" "Ripped the turret off?" What's the difference? The gun has sustained severe damage and will not be usable until major repairs are completed. One way or another, you have Diana destroying that gun in order to keep the ass-hats on board from trying to kill her with it. The only real difference is that ripping the turret off is a more impressive display of strength to really impress upon the aforementioned ass-hats just who they were messing with.
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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  14. #149
    Veteran Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    she couldn't just bent the tubes?
    How is that any better or worse? I could swallow that too, I'm not saying I wouldn't, but I'm not seeing how pulling a Bugs Bunny is any different than tearing out the turret. Both options lead to the exact same end--a broken gun.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 10-10-2013 at 09:55 PM.

  15. #150
    Senior Member SNascimento's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    she couldn't just bent the tubes?
    It isn't as dramatic. And I'm not thinking about the readers, but the reaction of the people on that scene. Diana did what she thought was appropriate. She thought saw a military ship and a bunch of soldiers and decided that tearing the gun off what the best way to say "I'm serious here". And I agree with her. I believe if she did any less, or any more for that matter, the chance of another incident like that happening would be bigger than they were with her decision.
    "Perfection... sometimes it's our worst enemy. I tried to be perfect once... decided to just try to be better. Found a good way to start that... is by accepting who you are."

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