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  1. #151
    Elder Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Here's the NASA article with a video:
    http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/...greenland-ice/

    And here's a rendition:

    Just Google "Greenland" and "canyon" and you'll find many articles.
    Man that was fantastic. And you're right, it is eerie that this was made public around the release of this book. Thanks for this information.
    Visited NY and DC and saw Spider-Man Turn off the Dark.

  2. #152
    Elder Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Obvious View Post
    Doctor Strange had a real point. If an incursion happened in the next 5 minutes, nothing except destroying the other Earth could stop it.

    Is it crazier to think about that scenario, or to ignore it?
    Nothing that he was prepared to contemplate, in any case. Reality stop spell from the book of the Tribunal could have frozen time, while Strange visited the most powerful reality beings about what was happening, or, Reed visited the actual time when all this started.
    Visited NY and DC and saw Spider-Man Turn off the Dark.

  3. #153
    I'm not a sidekick Kasper Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Nothing that he was prepared to contemplate, in any case. Reality stop spell from the book of the Tribunal could have frozen time, while Strange visited the most powerful reality beings about what was happening, or, Reed visited the actual time when all this started.
    You're assuming that the things you just suggested would affect the 616 universe AND the other Universe. I doubt stopping time in one Universe would stop time in another. Just like how the infinity Gauntlets only work in their respective Universes. And they've already stated they don't know where exactly it all started.

    Mind you it's not that they've given up looking for another way, but in the meantime they have to use the only option they have available.

  4. #154
    Senior Member Megaharrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Nothing that he was prepared to contemplate, in any case. Reality stop spell from the book of the Tribunal could have frozen time, while Strange visited the most powerful reality beings about what was happening, or, Reed visited the actual time when all this started.
    So Earth 616 comes to a halt, while all the other realities crash into it. Brilliant plan.

  5. #155
    Elder Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaharrison View Post
    So Earth 616 comes to a halt, while all the other realities crash into it. Brilliant plan.
    It's never happened before. How do we know? Maybe all universes time stops when you stop time?
    Visited NY and DC and saw Spider-Man Turn off the Dark.

  6. #156
    Latverian Tourism Bureau Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpbeta View Post
    He's been on the side of the good guys in virtually every encounter ever since he lost the Infinity Gauntlet about 20 years ago. He had the Reality Gem for years after that and barely used it. He was only interested in power as a means of seducing Death, a strategy that completely failed. He hasn't had any henchmen since the 70s. And he would never publicly admit to having 'dropped progeny' - he did horrible things to Nebula for claiming to be his granddaughter. and he's never shown any interest in conquest.

    It's all completely out of character except as a massive regression. I'm very disappointed, as he used to be one of the best characters Marvel had, even after they ditched Starlin. He seems to only be there as a generic baddie who needs his profile raising for the next movie. Could have used almost anyone.

    So what should he do, take up knitting?
    "...Doom's enemies have not the mettle to challenge him host to host, tooth to nail... As economic and military options fail them, they resort to simple rudeness."

  7. #157
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper Cole View Post
    No, Cap was refused to understand that the ONLY option they had at the time to was destroy the alternate earth. When they had another option (the Infinity Gauntlet) they tried it. They had no other options at the time (they still haven't found other options despite trying).

    Cap's "Plan" was to sit, hope for the best, and ignore the smartest guys on the planet telling him they didn't have any other option.

    and i'm sorry but bringing up WW2 is silly considering Cap went out and killed countless Nazi because he ultimately knew he was fighting for the greater good. He had more options in THAT situation than the Illuminati have right now dealing with the incursions.
    Well, there technically is another option. Evacuating the planet. Arguably that's the better option since it not only doesn't murder anyone but safe guards the entire 616. It's the only actual sollution to the problem (as opposed to just blowing up the next earth then sitting around waiting for the next incursion).

    Of course, I'm not entirely sure how they could evacuate the planet off the top of my head... but given what Black Swan has said it is possible. Given time I'd assume between Strange and Reed, they could figure out something.

  8. #158
    A Loki and Hellion fan MichaelAngel0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    It's never happened before. How do we know? Maybe all universes time stops when you stop time?
    By why take that chance? There's NOTHING that supports that stopping time in one universe does the same to another. Also, if it does work, to stop time for TWO universes would very likely take Strange out of commission for any length of time, and if an incursion happens again during that period, then what?

    Seriously, stop being naive like Captain America. None of the other guys are just going to let their families and friends die, because it's not the moral thing to do; especially when they don't have the luxury of time. Hell, in this issue didn't you see where Beast and others basically say to Tony that if their loved ones were still in danger that it's very that they wouldn't even had shown up, despite the incursions. Do you think that they'd hesitate to become killers to protect their people? Hell, most of them have already killed (include Cap, the hypocritical bastard).

    The only other option is a planet-wide evacuation, but, even if possible, to where?


    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    So what should he do, take up knitting?
    He shall knit the softest cotton gauntlet the universe has ever laid witness to.

  9. #159
    TROLL KILLA Mr MajestiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    All it takes is for good men to do nothing, in the face of evil, for evil to win. The Illuminati are not good men. Cap was the good man, and he refused to give into evil. I think that distinguishes why Cap is who he is and why the Illuminati are who they are. You do not descend to the level of evil as Black Swan did. What Tony Stark, Reed Richards and Stephen Strange have become since CW, is disappointing. What Black Panther has become because of Doom War is disappointing. The world does not need that kind of super hero. The world needs Steve Rogers as the signpost to stick too. If Rogers becomes irrelevant, then super heroes have descended to a point where they are indistinguishable from villains.

    They all caved in to the Nazis in WW11 because they thought they could negotiate with evil, but they soon realised you can't give ground, at all, to any form of evil. Captain America learnt that lesson. The Illuminati haven't learnt that lessen.
    Did you somehow forget that Namor and Black Bolt are part of the Illuminati as well?
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  10. #160
    I'm not a sidekick Kasper Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Well, there technically is another option. Evacuating the planet. Arguably that's the better option since it not only doesn't murder anyone but safe guards the entire 616. It's the only actual sollution to the problem (as opposed to just blowing up the next earth then sitting around waiting for the next incursion).

    Of course, I'm not entirely sure how they could evacuate the planet off the top of my head... but given what Black Swan has said it is possible. Given time I'd assume between Strange and Reed, they could figure out something.
    simply evacuating the planet actually wouldn't do Anything...They'd have to Evacuate earth AND destroy it order to ensure that two universes don't die. It can't be assumed that the people in the other Universe are planning on destroying 616 Earth. If the earths collide both Universes will be destroyed.

    and remember the big point that gets glossed over by some is that they really don't have time.

  11. #161
    A Loki and Hellion fan MichaelAngel0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    All it takes is for good men to do nothing, in the face of evil, for evil to win. The Illuminati are not good men. Cap was the good man, and he refused to give into evil. I think that distinguishes why Cap is who he is and why the Illuminati are who they are. You do not descend to the level of evil as Black Swan did. What Tony Stark, Reed Richards and Stephen Strange have become since CW, is disappointing. What Black Panther has become because of Doom War is disappointing. The world does not need that kind of super hero. The world needs Steve Rogers as the signpost to stick too. If Rogers becomes irrelevant, then super heroes have descended to a point where they are indistinguishable from villains.

    They all caved in to the Nazis in WW11 because they thought they could negotiate with evil, but they soon realised you can't give ground, at all, to any form of evil. Captain America learnt that lesson. The Illuminati haven't learnt that lessen.
    Yeah, reality isn't always filled with dues ex machinas and convenient powers up for the "good guys" and the like. A lot of the times, personal morals must be put to the side to make tough, morally ambiguous decisions that center around the survival or betterment of the whole. New Avengers tries show that in the moral battle that takes place, when large scale situations like the incursions happen, and even on a lower scale when it comes to kings and then scientists.

    If you want your Disney happy endings, then this ain't the book for you.

  12. #162
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper Cole View Post
    simply evacuating the planet actually wouldn't do Anything...They'd have to Evacuate earth AND destroy it order to ensure that two universes don't die. It can't be assumed that the people in the other Universe are planning on destroying 616 Earth. If the earths collide both Universes will be destroyed.

    and remember the big point that gets glossed over by some is that they really don't have time.
    Sure, they can blow up the earth too. I'm just saying the evatuation part is pretty darn important since it saves their lives and the rest of humanity. It's really something they should be heavily exploring, and I'm not entirely sure they've been shown spending even a panel really working on that idea. Which is a shame since again, to date it's the only actual sollution to the problem.

    Frankly it's also something they'd need a lot of help with. I don't at all disagree it's not a time consuming thing... that's probably why they need to get as much help as possible and start as soon as possible. Blowing up earths is a handy trick that can buy them time... but unless they just wanna sit there blowing up earths for all eternity they need to start doing more.

  13. #163
    A Loki and Hellion fan MichaelAngel0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Well, there technically is another option. Evacuating the planet. Arguably that's the better option since it not only doesn't murder anyone but safe guards the entire 616. It's the only actual sollution to the problem (as opposed to just blowing up the next earth then sitting around waiting for the next incursion).

    Of course, I'm not entirely sure how they could evacuate the planet off the top of my head... but given what Black Swan has said it is possible. Given time I'd assume between Strange and Reed, they could figure out something.
    Actually, that doesn't fix the problem because as long as the Earth that they evacuated is still there then there will still be incursions taking place. So they'd have to evacuate (that means put all the humans, mutants, inhumans, Atlantians, heroes, villains, etc in one place....that will sure go well.....), and then destroy their Earth (which would be much difficult for them to do, and I'm sure opposition would be met against that idea, regardless of the incursions) Also, to evacuate would take too much time; not only to build the ships, but also to get all the different races/ethnic groups to compromise and then to collect all the organisms on the planet, and all that on top of the incursions that are sure to happen during that prep time (during which heroes or villains from other Earths could be trying to destroy Earth 616 to save their own Earth).

    There's no clean solution to this.

  14. #164
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelAngel0 View Post
    Actually, that doesn't fix the problem because as long as the Earth that they evacuated is still there then there will still be incursions taking place. So they'd have to evacuate (that means put all the humans, mutants, inhumans, Atlantians, heroes, villains, etc in one place....that will sure go well.....), and then destroy their Earth (which would be much difficult for them to do, and I'm sure opposition would be met against that idea, regardless of the incursions) Also, to evacuate would take too much time; not only to build the ships, but also to get all the different races/ethnic groups to compromise and then to collect all the organisms on the planet, and all that on top of the incursions that are sure to happen during that prep time (during which heroes or villains from other Earths could be trying to destroy Earth 616 to save their own Earth).

    There's no clean solution to this.
    Oh, I don't disagree it wouldn't be difficult.

    But we know from what Black Swan said it has been done, so it is possible. And I'd still argue it's the best sollution, simply because it's the ONLY actual sollution. The fact that it safe guards the rest of the 616 while not having them potentially murder billions of people on in-coming earths is a plus too.

    But the fact that it's difficult is probably why they need to both start working on that ASAP (as far as I can tell we haven't gotten a single panel showing them working that end of things) and would likely require them to get some help. Probably a LOT of help.

  15. #165
    Elder Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    All it takes is for good men to do nothing, in the face of evil, for evil to win. The Illuminati are not good men. Cap was the good man, and he refused to give into evil. I think that distinguishes why Cap is who he is and why the Illuminati are who they are. You do not descend to the level of evil as Black Swan did. What Tony Stark, Reed Richards and Stephen Strange have become since CW, is disappointing. What Black Panther has become because of Doom War is disappointing. The world does not need that kind of super hero. The world needs Steve Rogers as the signpost to stick too. If Rogers becomes irrelevant, then super heroes have descended to a point where they are indistinguishable from villains.

    They all caved in to the Nazis in WW11 because they thought they could negotiate with evil, but they soon realised you can't give ground, at all, to any form of evil. Captain America learnt that lesson. The Illuminati haven't learnt that lessen.
    Yes, that's why the Allies didn't kill anybody in WWII, and especially not any Axis civilians, ever, because they refused to stoop to the level of the Nazis.

    Oh, wait...

    Sorry, no, if Steve Rogers was a signpost, he wasn't one the generals paid any attention to, nor did he abandon the cause or get tossed out of the conflict because he didn't agree with them.

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