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  1. #106
    I have a nice mustache Van Custo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habis View Post
    Anyway, what's exactly the difference between Hero an God in the Marvel Universe? There are people like Legion, Franklin Richards, Sentry, Molecule Men, Silver Surfer, Sersi, Mad Jim Jasper, Kulan Gath, Proteus...etc., who are more powerful and versatile than most gods despite being techniqually mortals...What is the criteria to discern god from superhuman? If Gorr mets Silver Surfer or Legion or Sentry, would he try to kill them or congratulate them? Worship isn't enough to take mortal from god, because many Marvelian gods aren't worshipped and some of them have never really had any worshipper (most of the asgardians, as a matter of fact).

    Are gods just a species? And if they are, why targeting them and letting other powerful, immortal beings alone? Shouldn't Galactus and the Celestials and the Builders be worthy targets for Gorr? Did Gorr target only creatures that made others worship them?
    There are significant differences and anyone who has read Thor for decades has picked up on those things throughout the years, but they're not always easy to explain or sum up. Gods aren't defined by their power level. The actual Norse Gods worshiped by Scandinavians in real life wren't all powerful either. And of course Marvel Asgardians were worshiped, for centuries, you saw it in this very arc. They are still worshiped by some; that topic was explored in the "Reigning" arc.

    Asgardians are essentially extra-dimensional beings. They are not simply aliens though and they never have been. For one, Gods hear prayers, and even gain power from them, and are more "supernatural" by nature than the other creatures you list (Builders, Galactus, etc). Those are mostly hard "science". There is no element of "magic" with Galactus like there is with "demons" like Mephisto and Gods like Odin. Dr. Strange, a supernatural character himself, was once blinded by Thor's "immortal soul". Thor's mother is an Elder Goddess.

    But their origins will always be somewhat mysterious and that's the appeal and the "mythology" of it. The origins of someone like the Silver Surfer are pretty clear cut.

  2. #107
    Senior Member Habis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Custo View Post
    There are significant differences and anyone who has read Thor for decades has picked up on those things throughout the years, but they're not always easy to explain or sum up. Gods aren't defined by their power level. The actual Norse Gods worshiped by Scandinavians in real life wren't all powerful either. And of course Marvel Asgardians were worshiped, for centuries, you saw it in this very arc. They are still worshiped by some; that topic was explored in the "Reigning" arc.

    Asgardians are essentially extra-dimensional beings. They are not simply aliens though and they never have been. For one, Gods hear prayers, and even gain power from them, and are more "supernatural" by nature than the other creatures you list (Builders, Galactus, etc). Those are mostly hard "science". There is no element of "magic" with Galactus like there is with "demons" like Mephisto and Gods like Odin. Dr. Strange, a supernatural character himself, was once blinded by Thor's "immortal soul". Thor's mother is an Elder Goddess.

    But their origins will always be somewhat mysterious and that's the appeal and the "mythology" of it. The origins of someone like the Silver Surfer are pretty clear cut.
    Most asgardian gods never had worshippers. Volstagg or Fandral, for example, never had worshippers. Only the most powerful among them, like Thor, Odin,...etc., were really worshipped.

    The gods haven't always been shown as able of hearing prayers. As a matter of fact, I think in most of Hercules' and Thor's stories the can't do that at all save some who have wide magical powers, like Zeus, Odin or the like.

    Other creatures get power from worship. The Mayan Pseudo-Gods (who were in fact mutates) gained power from worship. Dormammu, who was a Faltine, gained power from worship.

    And there are mystical entities who are as powerful as gods and aren't considered gods. Morgan Le Fay could beat most gods in a magic duel, but she isn't a goddess.

    Gaia's origin doesn't seem so different from that of the Prime Beings or the Faltines, for example. The Demiurge, a manifestation of Earth's potential for life, created Gaia. The Faltines reproduce in a manner similar to how the Demiurge created the "Elder Gods". And Gaia's origin and function doesn't look so different from that of the Prime Beings, who were created by the Children of the Makers and were each sent to a planet to become the incarnation of life on it.

    But what I meant is: Yeah, the Asgardians, Olympians, Tuatha De Danaan...etc., are somehow related to human mythology (and it seems a two-way relationship), they are magical creatures and gain power from worship, and are a species that "breed true" with each other, but, from an Outsider's perspective, from Gorr's perspective, why, among all the many powerful creatures in the MU, are they considered THE GODS, instead of just a race of powerful extradimensional magical beings? They are far from the top of the power totem pole, they aren't the ones actually managing the Universe, and from my point of view, their dependance on worship makes them less than other creatures, not more. Why is Gorr angry at them, and not at the Celestials or at Eon or Kronos?.
    Just think of the Lords of Light and Darkness, a group of mutates who gained the powers of Hindu Gods, or the Mayan Pseudo-Gods, who were mutated by the Terrigen Mists; all of them started to say "we are the gods", and they certainly had powers similar to the real deal. How do we take apart the "true" gods from being like them?.
    Last edited by Habis; 08-24-2013 at 03:43 AM.

  3. #108
    Administrator Expletive Deleted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habis View Post
    Why is Gorr angry at them, and not at the Celestials or at Eon or Kronos?
    He blames his own god's negligence for his family's suffering, so he takes out his anger on other gods. Those beings weren't responsible for him and his family the way his god was supposed to have been.

    Sure, it's nebulous and there are a host of exceptions, but I think the combination of magic as a power source and the assumption of religious authority (or at least the "god" label) is a pretty good blanket definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Habis View Post
    Most asgardian gods never had worshippers. Volstagg or Fandral, for example, never had worshippers. Only the most powerful among them, like Thor, Odin,...etc., were really worshipped.
    Guilt by association. In Gorr's view, all members of the pantheon are "gods" and therefore fair game, individually worshiped or not.
    Last edited by Expletive Deleted; 08-24-2013 at 06:18 AM.
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  4. #109
    I'm a male DebkoX's Avatar
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    Even at his lowest, the gods never answered then he saw one asking for his help.
    “The only thing standing between you and your goal is the bullshit story you keep telling yourself as to why you can't achieve it.”

  5. #110
    Cold War Myth aNamored's Avatar
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    Default picked up issue 11 this morning

    This was a very satisfying end to this storyline. I still do not like Gorr but I can certainly understand the whole concept and storyline. It worked well for Thor.

    Aaron has a real knack for Thor, probably my favorite thing he's done at Marvel since Ghost Rider.

    I will jump back on this book when the storylines look interesting (skipping the movie tie-in arc.)
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  6. #111
    Junior Member Colossus's Avatar
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    Fantastic issue. My favorite comic story in years. Everyone involved should be proud. Writer, artist, editor, girl that took my money for the book. Just outstanding. Enjoying the fact i am impatient for issue 12.
    Last edited by Colossus; 08-29-2013 at 07:50 PM.

  7. #112
    Senior Member havok1977's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habis View Post
    I wonder if that god in golden armor that Gorr killed wasn't in fact protecting his planet from the bearer of the Necrosword, and that was the reason he couldn't answer any of his prayers...wouldn't that be a sweet irony? Gorr killing his protector and merging with the very thing that was preventing him from answering their prayers and helping them...

    I also wonder if Gorr was planning on killing himself once the gods were dead. He had to know that he wasn't mortal anymore, hadn't he?
    I had avoided this thread until I caught up with this issue and this is a very interesting thought. Hope it gets explored at some point.
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  8. #113
    Junior Member Superleo's Avatar
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    Just read this.
    Did anyone read it digitally? Would it be possible for someone to send me an ipad screen shot of that double page spread? It is so beautiful!!!! Please! Anyone!

  9. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superleo View Post
    Just read this.
    Did anyone read it digitally? Would it be possible for someone to send me an ipad screen shot of that double page spread? It is so beautiful!!!! Please! Anyone!
    pm me your email n ill send it off.
    which double page spread though?
    Cyclops was right.

  10. #115
    Junior Member Superleo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciscostudent561 View Post
    pm me your email n ill send it off.
    which double page spread though?
    the one in here but I think this one is cut off at the edges


    http://ifanboy.com/articles/the-best...ls-08-14-2013/
    Edit: the one at the bottom

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