Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ... 5678910 LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 144
  1. #121
    Optic Blast, Optic Blast B. Kuwanger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    JEEEEAAAN
    Posts
    5,942

    Default

    Miller only did a handful of stories, that's a big part of why his impact is so impressive. O'Neil was involved for decades. He seemed to be a great Bat editor.

    Quote Originally Posted by cactusmaac View Post
    Well, no offence but you just seem to have terrible taste in comics.
    This may sound rude, but I think we should all be as free to disagree as we are to agree. Even though I liked Yellow and The Wake seems decent, the other Loeb and Snyder comics I've read are so bad to me that I'm reluctant to take recommendations when someone talks up stories like Hush or Owl Games. I'm pretty sure everyone can understand this, whether we say the other person has "different" taste or we're being honest and admitting that we think their taste is terrible.

    Honestly, when it comes to Batman, Morrison and Wagner are the only guys that have really entertained me without letting me down.
    4/9: Iron Fist, Flash Gordon, Doop, Magnus, Superboy, Shutter, Judge Dredd, Ghost Rider, Secret Avengers, X-Factor

  2. #122
    Elder Member Jeff Brady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    12,408

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mezzaro View Post
    INone taken, this forum seems to be all annoying middle aged men who either haven't picked up a comic in twenty-plus years or hate comics in general, neither of which should be here anyway. Every now and then you get someone who actually likes comics, but mostly it is people list you.
    That's simply not true. I'm 34, and I've bought comics within the past six months. I've been reading comics since 1990. Whoops, there goes your argument.

    Everyone who posts here loves comics. They may find the current crop disappointing, but that doesn't make their opinions invalid. I love me the bejeezus out of comics, and the ones you seem to like (particularly Loeb's work on Batman) are pretty terrible. They've been dissected and ruminated upon, analyzed every which way.

    Maybe as you get older, you'll grow and realize that you've been missing out.
    Last edited by Jeff Brady; 08-16-2013 at 07:19 AM.
    Google is your friend. Have a question? Look it up. ∙ BlogSequential Salon

  3. #123
    Prostitution Whores! Talisman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Aniana, Symkaria
    Posts
    29,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mezzaro View Post
    I've only been at comics for a little over thirteen years now and so I guess my list would be:

    Morrison
    Grant
    Winnick
    O'Niel
    Loeb
    Snyder
    Layman
    Daniel

    Again, odds are I'm forgetting a lot of people because I've read a lot of Batman comics and I just can't come up with a big list or anything, but that is a very rough list.

    As far as



    None taken, this forum seems to be all annoying middle aged men who either haven't picked up a comic in twenty-plus years or hate comics in general, neither of which should be here anyway. Every now and then you get someone who actually likes comics, but mostly it is people list you.

    And as for:



    Personally, Morrison is my end-all, be-all with Batman. As for everyone else, I like O'Niel a lot and he did A LOT to innovate Batman and family even more than Miller. Most people just fall flat. Most people try to be cool and innovative by making stories that pit Batman against one of his oldest enemies as they get the closest to winning that they ever have...lame. Loeb and Winnick did something new and innovative. For god's sake, Riddler was the ultimate bad guy. I can't remember the last time (bar Hush) I read a story with that many twists. Also, they both introduced characters that stuck, which I love.
    I don't understand why you feel that we're all middle aged men who hate comics. I continue to pick up both new and old comics every month, with an appreciation of the classics, because more often than not, if you can look past the dated dialogue, you will find some immaculate storytelling and some truly innovative stories. I am still quite young, and love comics with a passion. Loeb and Winnick did decent stories, with Hush being one of Loeb's worst. And Winnick's Under the Red Hood was better as an animated movie than a actual comic book storyline. Loeb's best work to date on the Bat line is without pause, the Long Halloween. Then he just took that exact same premise and duplicated it. For the rest of his career writing bat books.
    X-Poster of the Month: May 2013
    The Best There Is At What I Do

    Top Ten Magic Bitches

  4. #124
    Junior Member Reggie1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    229

    Default

    One of what I considered DC's greatest strengths before an editorial directive to preserve continuity at all costs (and badly, at that) was that writers and artists could interpret their heroes in so many different and interesting ways, even outside of the Elseworlds imprint. So you have the stark, noir Batman of Loeb and Sale, you've got a gritty, internal monologue of Miller's Batman, you even have the somewhat light-hearted but severe Batman of Bruce Timm. Not everything can be for everyone, and I completely understand why someone might not like Year One. For me, though, I appreciate almost every Batman story arc I've read--and I have read a lot--on its own merits, without comparing it to the Batman in my head and how he's "supposed to" be.

  5. #125
    Junior Member Mr_Derp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Dundee, Scotland
    Posts
    218

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Brady View Post
    That's simply not true. I'm 34, and I've bought comics within the past six months. I've been reading comics since 1990. Whoops, there goes your argument.

    Everyone who posts here loves comics. They may find the current crop disappointing, but that doesn't make their opinions invalid. I love me the bejeezus out of comics, and the ones you seem to like (particularly Loeb's work on Batman) are pretty terrible. They've been dissected and ruminated upon, analyzed every which way.

    Maybe as you get older, you'll grow and realize that you've been missing out.
    Analysing everything every which way doesn't exactly make things more worthwhile, because a lot of "critics" have dissected them it still comes down to opinion. His is that he likes Loeb, that's that. Yes his view of people on this board is uncalled for though, still this attitude some people have of their opinion being set in stone because people who have analyised it agree is nonsense

  6. #126
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    257

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Brady View Post
    That's simply not true. I'm 34, and I've bought comics within the past six months. I've been reading comics since 1990. Whoops, there goes your argument.

    Everyone who posts here loves comics. They may find the current crop disappointing, but that doesn't make their opinions invalid. I love me the bejeezus out of comics, and the ones you seem to like (particularly Loeb's work on Batman) are pretty terrible. They've been dissected and ruminated upon, analyzed every which way.

    Maybe as you get older, you'll grow and realize that you've been missing out.
    I didn't say I was talking about you, I even said that not everyone was like that and some people weren't. Whoops, there goes your argument. But is is VERY RARE to see more than three people on a thread happy about anything about comics, especially newer comics. Everyone on almost every thread has to whine and complain about comics past present and future regardless. Many of them even claim they haven't picked up a comic since (insert comic event here) and have no place being on the board.

  7. #127
    Crusader of Justice dancj's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Sunny Exeter, England
    Posts
    6,736

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Derp View Post
    Look at Jeph Loeb now, when long Halloween, dark victory etc came out it was hugely popular and now it's cool to rip on him. Again Hush was considered a great fun romp at the time and even though not everyone liked it, the backlash these days against it is crazy.
    That's some revisionist history there.

    People were ripping Hush to pieces from day one. I don't think I was doing comic message boards when TLH came out, but I know that I was quite disappointed in that too - but I forgave it because of the glorious art.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Derp View Post
    So many bandwagon jumpers on forums it's unreal.
    I see people say that a lot and I really don't think it's true (they're just jumping on the 'call people bandwagon jumpers' bandwagon ;) ). I think the people who bash Hush now are mostly the same ones who bashed it back then - and the people who love it now are the same ones who loved it back then.

  8. #128
    Crusader of Justice dancj's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Sunny Exeter, England
    Posts
    6,736

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mastermind View Post
    Loeb has never written a great comic. Ever.
    Yeah he did. Once.

    It was called Challengers of the Unknown.

  9. #129
    Junior Member Mr_Derp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Dundee, Scotland
    Posts
    218

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    That's some revisionist history there.

    People were ripping Hush to pieces from day one. I don't think I was doing comic message boards when TLH came out, but I know that I was quite disappointed in that too - but I forgave it because of the glorious art.


    I see people say that a lot and I really don't think it's true (they're just jumping on the 'call people bandwagon jumpers' bandwagon ;) ). I think the people who bash Hush now are mostly the same ones who bashed it back then - and the people who love it now are the same ones who loved it back then.
    There certainly were critics but as I said it was nowhere near as obsessional as it is now so it's not really revisionist at all. I get you though, it's hard to make a call on bandwagon jumpers and hipsters now because it gets lost in a sea of undeserved accusations.

  10. #130
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    6,664

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Derp View Post
    There certainly were critics but as I said it was nowhere near as obsessional as it is now so it's not really revisionist at all. I get you though, it's hard to make a call on bandwagon jumpers and hipsters now because it gets lost in a sea of undeserved accusations.
    Hush was a massive seller. It's pretty safe to say it was enjoyed by a great many people.

  11. #131
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,558

    Default

    Three words that have absolutely no meaning anymore thanks in no small part to the Internet: "hipster," "yuppie," and "troll."

  12. #132
    Crusader of Justice dancj's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Sunny Exeter, England
    Posts
    6,736

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    Hush was a massive seller. It's pretty safe to say it was enjoyed by a great many people.
    It still is. There have always been a huge number of people who loved the book and a huge number who hated it. I really haven't seen any change in the ratio.

    (FWIW - I sit roughly in the middle, but verging towards thinking it's not very good)

  13. #133
    Junior Member Reggie1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    229

    Default

    Did I really just see someone list Bill Finger as the "best" Batman writer of all time? Have I landed on Earth-3 or something? Bill Finger deserves high accolades for co-creating (or practically creating, if you choose to go that way) the Batman character, as well as many of his most memorable rogues, gadgets, Robin, the Batmobile, the Batcave, the list goes on and on. But his writing was really only good in context of the era in which it was written. Is the suggestion that we'd rather see Batman jumping around on giant typewriters and cash registers, sailing into thugs in technicolor suits, sharing a celebratory milkshake with Commissioner Gordon and Robin the last panel?

    When considering the creation of any creator, and particularly when we're boiling down 75 years of comics history, we have to consider the context in which these things were created. Bill Finger was a great, reliable writer (story-wise, apparently he was terrible on deadlines) in an era when comics were cranked out like Ford automobiles on an assembly line. He wrote under the full brunt of the Comics Code Authority and went in some interesting directions with that in mind. But a story today where Batman goes to another planet where he has the powers of Superman would be ridiculous, for a number of reasons. When Bill Finger wrote that story, Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman were practically the only superheroes around.

    Dennis O'Neil brought Batman out of a rigid house style and returned the character to darkness. Frank Miller gave him a brooding depth and fighter's spirit in contrast to the refined judo detective he'd been for fifty years. Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale did noir stories for Batman at a time when comics were largely flashy space battles and toothy characters in perpetual screams. Every one of these classic writers and artists are remembered for the way they handled Batman in the context of the time they were written. That doesn't mean you have to like their work or even respect it, but if you're going to critique it, you have to place it correctly within the period that it was created. If Watchmen came out today, people would wonder why it looks so flat and without any lens flares. But it's not a comic about 2013, it's a comic about 1985.

  14. #134
    Elder Member Jeff Brady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    12,408

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mezzaro View Post
    I didn't say I was talking about you, I even said that not everyone was like that and some people weren't. Whoops, there goes your argument. But is is VERY RARE to see more than three people on a thread happy about anything about comics, especially newer comics.
    That's because people have become more critical. It has to do with that "growing up" thing.

    Everyone on almost every thread has to whine and complain about comics past present and future regardless. Many of them even claim they haven't picked up a comic since (insert comic event here) and have no place being on the board.
    Wait wait wait. What's the statute of limitations for posting on a comics board? How long ago must they have purchased a comic in order to still talk about comics? How do you prove that they're a real fan? How does that time span invalidate their opinion?
    Google is your friend. Have a question? Look it up. ∙ BlogSequential Salon

  15. #135
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    257

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Brady View Post
    That's because people have become more critical. It has to do with that "growing up" thing.
    So you're telling me that middle aged men hate everything? I really don't think so.

    Wait wait wait. What's the statute of limitations for posting on a comics board? How long ago must they have purchased a comic in order to still talk about comics? How do you prove that they're a real fan? How does that time span invalidate their opinion?
    You see, when someone, say, hasn't bought or read a Batman comic since Crisis, then their point is invalid when discussing new things. You can't say that you hated Death of the Family if you NEVER READ IT, you can't say you hate HUSH if you NEVER READ IT. Do you understand? If you stopped buying a specific comic because you thought that the UPCOMING storyline would be dumb, and you never actually read the storyline, just a synopsis and others' comments of it, then you have no right to criticize the comic or anything about it, because you purposely removed yourself from the situation. Its the reason I buy every single event, that way I can either defend it or add in to the bashing with a certain right that many people do not have.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •